Bulletproof rEvo hoses

**Dave Sutton** · 8th January 2008, 22:53

Yep, another hack from the Little Diveshop of Horrors, AKA the "LDSOH".

Yes, the Ray hoses are fine. They are *great* in fact. Flexable, relatively inexpensive, and when shrouded in the cordura sheaths provided are abrasion resistant and long lasting.

But....... well...... you know...... <sigh>..... It's somehow genetic for me to work on stuff to make it a little better, so: Here is how I put Cooper hoses on my rEvo (along with the KISS BOV, although that works on the Ray hoses as well, as can be seen in the comparison photo):

Step 1: Start with a foot of 1.5 inch diameter brass bar stock. Cut it in half as you need to make two.

Step 2: Remove about 85% of it carefully on a lathe.

Step 3: Enjoy looking at brass P-Connnectors with a large diameter outer diameter to match the Cooper hoses.

Results are shown. On one side the original Ray hose and connector, and on the other the new Cooper hose and the brass P-Connector.

Yes, the hose on the right is a green Cooper, the photo does not show the color well.

(1): To answer the first question before it's asked, losing the 90 degree fitting does not affect anything, and it's comfortable and flexable. Water test this weekend.

(2): To answer the second question before it's asked: No I'm not going to make you a set. They took me a half day to make and I don't have many half days to play in the shop.

(3): To answer the third question before it's asked: Yes, Delrin would work fine. Send a photo to Martin and ask him to make these as a part number. Just remember where you saw it first.

Dave

.

**SeaBass** · 8th January 2008, 23:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

(1): To answer the first question before it's asked, losing the 90 degree fitting does not affect anything, and it's comfortable and flexable. Water test this weekend.

(2): To answer the second question before it's asked: No I'm not going to make you a set. They took me a half day to make and I don't have many half days to play in the shop.

(3): To answer the third question before it's asked: Yes, Delrin would work fine. Send a photo to Martin and ask him to make these as a part number. Just remember where you saw it first.

(4): Will the brass p-connectors turn green?

--SB

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**Dave Sutton** · 9th January 2008, 00:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by SeaBass)

(4): Will the brass p-connectors turn green?

--SB

.

No greener than the ones on my Mark-15. They generally just turn sort of dark. They only go green if not washed and are then left salty for *years*. And even if they do turn green... who cares? Makes no difference at all. Trust me, *lots* of brass on EXPLORER is green!

There is brass-blackening stuff that I order from Brownells (gunsmithing stuff) so I'll blacken them eventually. They could be sent out and chromed as well.

This design can be done in brass, aluminum (needs to be anodized though), or Delrin. I figgured that brass was the toughest, and so selected it. Plus I actually had it laying under the bench...

Dave

.

**SeaBass** · 9th January 2008, 01:31

Dave,

Actually the brass really looks nice.

1) Ever try cutting two "O"-ring grooves in a male p-port end? <--bulletproof?

2) I notice that you use stainless steel hose clamps. What do you think of the zip ties nomally used on the Ray hoses?

Oh and by the way. I am in the process of having martin make me up a pair as we speak...

-- Thom

.

dave t · 9th January 2008, 06:22

Nice Dave, I would suggest that the straight couplers will actually improve WOB, gas flow dont like right angles!!

Dave

paulraymaekers · 9th January 2008, 09:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

Nice Dave, I would suggest that the straight couplers will actually improve WOB, gas flow dont like right angles!!

Dave

correct!

this is in our study program if we want to apply for CE marking
problem is that the breathing hose routing is not so nice in diving position, it blocks part of the 'side-view'

there is perhaps an intermediate solution, but only WOB measurements will show what is possible (a bit smooter, 45° elbow, with finns to guide the flow inside)

paul

**Dave Sutton** · 9th January 2008, 13:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

correct!

this is in our study program if we want to apply for CE marking
problem is that the breathing hose routing is not so nice in diving position, it blocks part of the 'side-view' . there is perhaps an intermediate solution, but only WOB measurements will show what is possible (a bit smooter, 45° elbow, with finns to guide the flow inside)paul

Paul, *if* I were going to do a redesign ever..... I would extend the top of the metal box up a few CM, and place the P-Connectors facing forwards towards the back of the divers head and not up. This way the plug-in can be straight and still enjoy the close-routing of the hoses.

But... it's close to perfect already, so dreaming and reality are sometimes dfferent!

Dave

**Dave Sutton** · 9th January 2008, 13:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by SeaBass)

Dave,

Actually the brass really looks nice.

1) Ever try cutting two "O"-ring grooves in a male p-port end? <--bulletproof?

2) I notice that you use stainless steel hose clamps. What do you think of the zip ties nomally used on the Ray hoses?

Oh and by the way. I am in the process of having martin make me up a pair as we speak...

-- Thom

.

(1): No need to use 2 o-rings, and there's not really area in the female part of the port for a second o-ring to seal anyway. One is plenty. It's a big-old-fat one, and they always seal fine.

(2): Zip ties are fine, and expecially on the Ray hoses where the connection is actually almost purely mechanical in the way the factory hose fits over the flange of the connector. Draeger got this exactly rght. When going to Cooper hoses you *need* to use metal hose clamps. There's really no alternative.

(3): Martin ain't making them in brass....

. I wanted to be able to BANG the setup into the overhead of a wreck and NEVER worry about it breaking. Plastic, even Delrin, is...well.... plastic. It'll break eventually when abused. Keeping the loop intact = life, and so I put "Heavy Metal" where it counts.

Dave

.

paulraymaekers · 9th January 2008, 14:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Paul, *if* I were going to do a redesign ever..... I would extend the top of the metal box up a few CM, and place the P-Connectors facing forwards towards the back of the divers head and not up. This way the plug-in can be straight and still enjoy the close-routing of the hoses.

the drawing was already there... but it makes the unit look... 'ugly' on your back :-(

Edvin M · 9th January 2008, 14:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

(1): No need to use 2 o-rings, and there's not really area in the female part of the port for a second o-ring to seal anyway. One is plenty. It's a big-old-fat one, and they always seal fine.

Dave

.

Looks really nice with the brass, although I have two orings on my t-pieces

8th January 2008, 23:49	#2 (permalink)
SeaBass Thom Susko Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ray Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Ray Home Build Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Clemente, CA Posts: 232	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) (1): To answer the first question before it's asked, losing the 90 degree fitting does not affect anything, and it's comfortable and flexable. Water test this weekend. (2): To answer the second question before it's asked: No I'm not going to make you a set. They took me a half day to make and I don't have many half days to play in the shop. (3): To answer the third question before it's asked: Yes, Delrin would work fine. Send a photo to Martin and ask him to make these as a part number. Just remember where you saw it first. (4): Will the brass p-connectors turn green? --SB .
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9th January 2008, 00:02	#3 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,674	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Quote: (Originally Posted by SeaBass) (4): Will the brass p-connectors turn green? --SB . No greener than the ones on my Mark-15. They generally just turn sort of dark. They only go green if not washed and are then left salty for years. And even if they do turn green... who cares? Makes no difference at all. Trust me, lots of brass on EXPLORER is green! There is brass-blackening stuff that I order from Brownells (gunsmithing stuff) so I'll blacken them eventually. They could be sent out and chromed as well. This design can be done in brass, aluminum (needs to be anodized though), or Delrin. I figgured that brass was the toughest, and so selected it. Plus I actually had it laying under the bench... Dave . __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Online)

9th January 2008, 01:31	#4 (permalink)
SeaBass Thom Susko Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ray Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Ray Home Build Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Clemente, CA Posts: 232	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Dave, Actually the brass really looks nice. 1) Ever try cutting two "O"-ring grooves in a male p-port end? <--bulletproof? 2) I notice that you use stainless steel hose clamps. What do you think of the zip ties nomally used on the Ray hoses? Oh and by the way. I am in the process of having martin make me up a pair as we speak... -- Thom . Last edited by SeaBass : 9th January 2008 at 01:38.
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9th January 2008, 06:22	#5 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 654	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Nice Dave, I would suggest that the straight couplers will actually improve WOB, gas flow dont like right angles!! Dave
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9th January 2008, 09:18	#6 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,508	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) Nice Dave, I would suggest that the straight couplers will actually improve WOB, gas flow dont like right angles!! Dave correct! this is in our study program if we want to apply for CE marking problem is that the breathing hose routing is not so nice in diving position, it blocks part of the 'side-view' there is perhaps an intermediate solution, but only WOB measurements will show what is possible (a bit smooter, 45° elbow, with finns to guide the flow inside) paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

9th January 2008, 13:18	#7 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,674	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) correct! this is in our study program if we want to apply for CE marking problem is that the breathing hose routing is not so nice in diving position, it blocks part of the 'side-view' . there is perhaps an intermediate solution, but only WOB measurements will show what is possible (a bit smooter, 45° elbow, with finns to guide the flow inside)paul Paul, if I were going to do a redesign ever..... I would extend the top of the metal box up a few CM, and place the P-Connectors facing forwards towards the back of the divers head and not up. This way the plug-in can be straight and still enjoy the close-routing of the hoses. But... it's close to perfect already, so dreaming and reality are sometimes dfferent! Dave __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Online)

9th January 2008, 13:23	#8 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,674	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Quote: (Originally Posted by SeaBass) Dave, Actually the brass really looks nice. 1) Ever try cutting two "O"-ring grooves in a male p-port end? <--bulletproof? 2) I notice that you use stainless steel hose clamps. What do you think of the zip ties nomally used on the Ray hoses? Oh and by the way. I am in the process of having martin make me up a pair as we speak... -- Thom . (1): No need to use 2 o-rings, and there's not really area in the female part of the port for a second o-ring to seal anyway. One is plenty. It's a big-old-fat one, and they always seal fine. (2): Zip ties are fine, and expecially on the Ray hoses where the connection is actually almost purely mechanical in the way the factory hose fits over the flange of the connector. Draeger got this exactly rght. When going to Cooper hoses you need to use metal hose clamps. There's really no alternative. (3): Martin ain't making them in brass.... . I wanted to be able to BANG the setup into the overhead of a wreck and NEVER worry about it breaking. Plastic, even Delrin, is...well.... plastic. It'll break eventually when abused. Keeping the loop intact = life, and so I put "Heavy Metal" where it counts. Dave . __________________ "Silent Diving with No Bubbles and No Politics".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Online)

9th January 2008, 14:00	#9 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,508	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Paul, if I were going to do a redesign ever..... I would extend the top of the metal box up a few CM, and place the P-Connectors facing forwards towards the back of the divers head and not up. This way the plug-in can be straight and still enjoy the close-routing of the hoses. the drawing was already there... but it makes the unit look... 'ugly' on your back :-( __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

9th January 2008, 14:53	#10 (permalink)
Edvin M Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lysekil, Sweden Posts: 101	Re: Bulletproof rEvo hoses Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) (1): No need to use 2 o-rings, and there's not really area in the female part of the port for a second o-ring to seal anyway. One is plenty. It's a big-old-fat one, and they always seal fine. Dave . Looks really nice with the brass, although I have two orings on my t-pieces
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