Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions??

AD_ward9 · 9th February 2007, 02:26

The Doria is a piece of cake on mix. It is some of the boat operators and guys who lose their marbles for the sake of a bit of old pottery that are the problem

Read over Gary Gentile's books on the Doria, don't dive it at night and you should be fine. Include a gas analyser so you know what is in those tanks

. Gary is a real gentleman: what he says in his books on the Doria is trustworthy and gives you the score.

I disagree with Dave on this: having a reel is quite useful. It allows the chase boat, if there is one, to follow your SMB as you drift off towards Africa in the event you could not find the shot line. I do not disparage your skills: it simply does happen, no matter how perfect you are. If no chase boat, pick another boat operator.

Joe's advice is spot on, by the way. Bring a Jon line. Also Charles (Solodiver): bring enough bail out to deco on your todd.

To go inside, get formal deep wreck penetration training, and you should have done a lot of this before. That applies to any wreck, but especially the Doria because it is falling to bits: it should not be the first deep wreck in which you plan to spend 30 minutes inside.

Alex

JOHNU · 9th February 2007, 02:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

The Doria is a piece of cake on mix. It is some of the boat operators that are the problem

Read over Gary Gentile's books on the Doria, don't dive it at night and you should be fine. Include a gas analyser so you know what is in those tanks

. Gary is a real gentleman: what he says in his books on the Doria is trustworthy and gives you the score.

I disagree with Dave on this: having a reel is quite useful. It allows the chase boat, if there is one, to follow your SMB as you drift off towards Africa in the event you could not find the shot line. I do not disparage your skills: it simply does happen, no matter how perfect you are. If no chase boat, pick another boat operator.

Joe's advice is spot on, by the way. Bring a Jon line and enough bail out.

To go inside, get formal deep wreck penetration training, and you should have done a lot of this before. That applies to any wreck, but especially the Doria because it is falling to bits: it should not be the first deep wreck in which you plan to spend 30 minutes inside.

Alex

Thanks Alex,

I don't usually dive without a reel/reels anyway. I don't think Dave was saying leave my reel at home. He can correct me if I am wrong but I think he was saying don't use my reel to keep in contact with the up line over to my entry point in the event of bad vis. just stay on the line (I agree). And he was also saying that it might be a bad idea to try and do penetration dives on our first trip out (which I also agree). But thats just me. I don't really have a desire for penetration on these dives just a touch and maybe a pic here and there and I'm all good.

Thanks for the input though. Any wrecks in mind that would compare to the Doria?

***jradomski*** · 9th February 2007, 03:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by JOHNU)

Thanks Alex,

I don't usually dive without a reel/reels anyway. I don't think Dave was saying leave my reel at home. He can correct me if I am wrong but I think he was saying don't use my reel to keep in contact with the up line over to my entry point in the event of bad vis. just stay on the line (I agree). And he was also saying that it might be a bad idea to try and do penetration dives on our first trip out (which I also agree). But thats just me. I don't really have a desire for penetration on these dives just a touch and maybe a pic here and there and I'm all good.

Thanks for the input though. Any wrecks in mind that would compare to the Doria?

The biggest poiint that you should take away is that the conditions on the doria can start out quite calm and with no warning turn to total shit..

You must be able to go up and down the anchor line, even with a chase boat they might not find you.. Remember the reason she sank.. She collided with another ship in fog..

The fog can roll in VERY fast and it can get so bad you can't see the stern of the boat from the bow. so if you count on an SMB to be seen you might just be SOL. Navigation is the strongest point you must have. You must not get spooked when you think you are lost and say F*** it I'll shoot a bag and drift deco.. You might be in for a LONG LONG drift..

Some time ago (I dont rember what year it was), a diver (who chartered a boat with a group out of Mass, If I rmember correctly) drifted for several days and turned up off the southern coast of NJ!!!

You don't need specific wrecks, you need limited viz confort and confort in current, both at deph and hang8ing on a line like a flag..

JOHNU · 9th February 2007, 04:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

The biggest poiint that you should take away is that the conditions on the doria can start out quite calm and with no warning turn to total shit..

You must be able to go up and down the anchor line, even with a chase boat they might not find you.. Remember the reason she sank.. She collided with another ship in fog..

The fog can roll in VERY fast and it can get so bad you can't see the stern of the boat from the bow. so if you count on an SMB to be seen you might just be SOL. Navigation is the strongest point you must have. You must not get spooked when you think you are lost and say F*** it I'll shoot a bag and drift deco.. You might be in for a LONG LONG drift..

Some time ago (I dont rember what year it was), a diver (who chartered a boat with a group out of Mass, If I rmember correctly) drifted for several days and turned up off the southern coast of NJ!!!

You don't need specific wrecks, you need limited viz confort and confort in current, both at deph and hang8ing on a line like a flag..

Points taken. Thank You

AD_ward9 · 9th February 2007, 08:11

Yes, you are right. The fog can be a bit of a party pooper.

Pretty cool for the chap to drift for a few days. Now that is some feat and survive. Particulary in those waters, at night big critters seem to munch anything on the surface. I wonder how much gear he had at the end of it?

Alex

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

The biggest poiint that you should take away is that the conditions on the doria can start out quite calm and with no warning turn to total shit..

You must be able to go up and down the anchor line, even with a chase boat they might not find you.. Remember the reason she sank.. She collided with another ship in fog..

The fog can roll in VERY fast and it can get so bad you can't see the stern of the boat from the bow. so if you count on an SMB to be seen you might just be SOL. Navigation is the strongest point you must have. You must not get spooked when you think you are lost and say F*** it I'll shoot a bag and drift deco.. You might be in for a LONG LONG drift..

Some time ago (I dont rember what year it was), a diver (who chartered a boat with a group out of Mass, If I rmember correctly) drifted for several days and turned up off the southern coast of NJ!!!

You don't need specific wrecks, you need limited viz confort and confort in current, both at deph and hang8ing on a line like a flag..

solocavediver · 9th February 2007, 10:45

On the subject of near-miss incidents on this wreck, the nearest my cavediving instructor ever came to starring in the obituary columns was when, in strongish current, he lost the shotline on the Doria. He still had hours of deco to go, but he was more scared of washing up as fishbait in North Africa than of missing deco, so up he went (I think he did not have an SMB). He survived; he was not paralysed; but he broke the previous record for hours in the local recompression chamber, and I think he still holds that record. During recompression he exhibited every CONVENTID symptom of oxygen poisoning including convulsion, but the doctors kept him at it...... with good results. Continuous guideline back to the transom, that's what I say - and if in doubt, clip on.

Cheers,

Charles.

By the way I hadn't noticed that my tacit assumption that you would run a reel inside the wreck had created such a controversy. Yes, I had noticed wreckdivers often don't bother to run a reel in their overhead environment. Yes, I had noticed that cavedivers don't always bother with an SMB when they dive in the ocean. But I think both attitudes are wrong when the wreck involved is a known serial killer like the Doria. What is the worst that can happen to Dave Sutton's "lunatic" who insists on running a reel inside the wreck? The current opposes him, he fumbles, the reel gets tangled up and he's forced to retreat humiliated, no doubt to rude remarks from Dave. But what is the worst that happens to the guy without a reel? He gets caught in worsening visibility, loses his way hopelessly and dies inside the wreck. It's happened before there, and it's also nearly happened before. So why risk your life more than you have to?

Cheers,

Charles.

O.C.Diver · 9th February 2007, 13:03

While I'm not going to debate whether or not to use a reel within the Doria, reels tend to embolden divers in wrecks encouraging them to go father to places they shouldn't. The inside of the Doria is a catacomb of sharp edges and entanglements. More than one diver has found his line parted on the way out either from a sharp edge or an idiot who became entangled in it. A simple rule of thumb for the Doria: Don't go anywhere you can't feel your way out. Sooner or later the vis will turn to sh*t and your line will part.

Another good warm up dive for the Doria if not already mentioned is the Choapa off NY/NJ. Bring 2 knives for the monofiliment and nets.

Ted

NEwreckdiver · 9th February 2007, 14:36

The Doria is deep, has high current and often limited visibility. The wreck is breaking down so it is less straightforward to navigate. On a first dive/trip - be conservative, watch your gas and have fun - don't set objectives like "must see X", etc.... But to your question about preparation - I have found what makes the Doria hardest is that you're tired and beat up by the time you arrive on the wreck. Surface conditions can be lousy more often than not... you don't sleep well ... and on top of all this you've been hauling gear around and driving to Montauk (not the easiest place to get to). You will probably be tired at the outset - not an ideal way to start a trip. So all those wrecks you are planning to dive in preparation .... pick the deep, dark scary ones with lots of current and then don't sleep the night before you dive them...

Cheers,
Heather Knowles

diverklondike · 9th February 2007, 14:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by O.C.Diver)

While I'm not going to debate whether or not to use a reel within the Doria, reels tend to embolden divers in wrecks encouraging them to go father to places they shouldn't. The inside of the Doria is a catacomb of sharp edges and entanglements. More than one diver has found his line parted on the way out either from a sharp edge or an idiot who became entangled in it. A simple rule of thumb for the Doria: Don't go anywhere you can't feel your way out. Sooner or later the vis will turn to sh*t and your line will part.

Another good warm up dive for the Doria if not already mentioned is the Choapa off NY/NJ. Bring 2 knives for the monofiliment and nets.

Ted

The Choapa is an awesome prep dive.... Cold.... Low vis... etc... This wreck is in the NJ "Mud Hole"...

dive2dive2000 · 9th February 2007, 19:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

The Choapa is an awesome prep dive.... Cold.... Low vis... etc... This wreck is in the NJ "Mud Hole"...

I was taught that the "Doria" was a prerequisite for the "Choapa"

If time allows contact
Sea Turtle Charters.com,wreckdiving,sharkcage,montauk,blockis land,longisland

Chuck is out of Montauk and a lot of local stuff has limited viz and rip roaring currents

9th February 2007, 02:26	#11 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,856	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? The Doria is a piece of cake on mix. It is some of the boat operators and guys who lose their marbles for the sake of a bit of old pottery that are the problem Read over Gary Gentile's books on the Doria, don't dive it at night and you should be fine. Include a gas analyser so you know what is in those tanks . Gary is a real gentleman: what he says in his books on the Doria is trustworthy and gives you the score. I disagree with Dave on this: having a reel is quite useful. It allows the chase boat, if there is one, to follow your SMB as you drift off towards Africa in the event you could not find the shot line. I do not disparage your skills: it simply does happen, no matter how perfect you are. If no chase boat, pick another boat operator. Joe's advice is spot on, by the way. Bring a Jon line. Also Charles (Solodiver): bring enough bail out to deco on your todd. To go inside, get formal deep wreck penetration training, and you should have done a lot of this before. That applies to any wreck, but especially the Doria because it is falling to bits: it should not be the first deep wreck in which you plan to spend 30 minutes inside. Alex Last edited by AD_ward9 : 9th February 2007 at 02:37.
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9th February 2007, 02:49	#12 (permalink)
JOHNU New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tx Posts: 73	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) The Doria is a piece of cake on mix. It is some of the boat operators that are the problem Read over Gary Gentile's books on the Doria, don't dive it at night and you should be fine. Include a gas analyser so you know what is in those tanks . Gary is a real gentleman: what he says in his books on the Doria is trustworthy and gives you the score. I disagree with Dave on this: having a reel is quite useful. It allows the chase boat, if there is one, to follow your SMB as you drift off towards Africa in the event you could not find the shot line. I do not disparage your skills: it simply does happen, no matter how perfect you are. If no chase boat, pick another boat operator. Joe's advice is spot on, by the way. Bring a Jon line and enough bail out. To go inside, get formal deep wreck penetration training, and you should have done a lot of this before. That applies to any wreck, but especially the Doria because it is falling to bits: it should not be the first deep wreck in which you plan to spend 30 minutes inside. Alex Thanks Alex, I don't usually dive without a reel/reels anyway. I don't think Dave was saying leave my reel at home. He can correct me if I am wrong but I think he was saying don't use my reel to keep in contact with the up line over to my entry point in the event of bad vis. just stay on the line (I agree). And he was also saying that it might be a bad idea to try and do penetration dives on our first trip out (which I also agree). But thats just me. I don't really have a desire for penetration on these dives just a touch and maybe a pic here and there and I'm all good. Thanks for the input though. Any wrecks in mind that would compare to the Doria?
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9th February 2007, 03:06	#13 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,998	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? Quote: (Originally Posted by JOHNU) Thanks Alex, I don't usually dive without a reel/reels anyway. I don't think Dave was saying leave my reel at home. He can correct me if I am wrong but I think he was saying don't use my reel to keep in contact with the up line over to my entry point in the event of bad vis. just stay on the line (I agree). And he was also saying that it might be a bad idea to try and do penetration dives on our first trip out (which I also agree). But thats just me. I don't really have a desire for penetration on these dives just a touch and maybe a pic here and there and I'm all good. Thanks for the input though. Any wrecks in mind that would compare to the Doria? The biggest poiint that you should take away is that the conditions on the doria can start out quite calm and with no warning turn to total shit.. You must be able to go up and down the anchor line, even with a chase boat they might not find you.. Remember the reason she sank.. She collided with another ship in fog.. The fog can roll in VERY fast and it can get so bad you can't see the stern of the boat from the bow. so if you count on an SMB to be seen you might just be SOL. Navigation is the strongest point you must have. You must not get spooked when you think you are lost and say F* it I'll shoot a bag and drift deco.. You might be in for a LONG LONG drift.. Some time ago (I dont rember what year it was), a diver (who chartered a boat with a group out of Mass, If I rmember correctly) drifted for several days and turned up off the southern coast of NJ!!! You don't need specific wrecks, you need limited viz confort and confort in current, both at deph and hang8ing on a line like a flag.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI** Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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9th February 2007, 04:51	#14 (permalink)
JOHNU New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: May 2006 Location: Tx Posts: 73	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) The biggest poiint that you should take away is that the conditions on the doria can start out quite calm and with no warning turn to total shit.. You must be able to go up and down the anchor line, even with a chase boat they might not find you.. Remember the reason she sank.. She collided with another ship in fog.. The fog can roll in VERY fast and it can get so bad you can't see the stern of the boat from the bow. so if you count on an SMB to be seen you might just be SOL. Navigation is the strongest point you must have. You must not get spooked when you think you are lost and say F*** it I'll shoot a bag and drift deco.. You might be in for a LONG LONG drift.. Some time ago (I dont rember what year it was), a diver (who chartered a boat with a group out of Mass, If I rmember correctly) drifted for several days and turned up off the southern coast of NJ!!! You don't need specific wrecks, you need limited viz confort and confort in current, both at deph and hang8ing on a line like a flag.. Points taken. Thank You
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9th February 2007, 08:11	#15 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,856	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? Yes, you are right. The fog can be a bit of a party pooper. Pretty cool for the chap to drift for a few days. Now that is some feat and survive. Particulary in those waters, at night big critters seem to munch anything on the surface. I wonder how much gear he had at the end of it? Alex Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) The biggest poiint that you should take away is that the conditions on the doria can start out quite calm and with no warning turn to total shit.. You must be able to go up and down the anchor line, even with a chase boat they might not find you.. Remember the reason she sank.. She collided with another ship in fog.. The fog can roll in VERY fast and it can get so bad you can't see the stern of the boat from the bow. so if you count on an SMB to be seen you might just be SOL. Navigation is the strongest point you must have. You must not get spooked when you think you are lost and say F*** it I'll shoot a bag and drift deco.. You might be in for a LONG LONG drift.. Some time ago (I dont rember what year it was), a diver (who chartered a boat with a group out of Mass, If I rmember correctly) drifted for several days and turned up off the southern coast of NJ!!! You don't need specific wrecks, you need limited viz confort and confort in current, both at deph and hang8ing on a line like a flag..
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9th February 2007, 10:45	#16 (permalink)
solocavediver New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Leeds UK Posts: 106	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? On the subject of near-miss incidents on this wreck, the nearest my cavediving instructor ever came to starring in the obituary columns was when, in strongish current, he lost the shotline on the Doria. He still had hours of deco to go, but he was more scared of washing up as fishbait in North Africa than of missing deco, so up he went (I think he did not have an SMB). He survived; he was not paralysed; but he broke the previous record for hours in the local recompression chamber, and I think he still holds that record. During recompression he exhibited every CONVENTID symptom of oxygen poisoning including convulsion, but the doctors kept him at it...... with good results. Continuous guideline back to the transom, that's what I say - and if in doubt, clip on. Cheers, Charles. By the way I hadn't noticed that my tacit assumption that you would run a reel inside the wreck had created such a controversy. Yes, I had noticed wreckdivers often don't bother to run a reel in their overhead environment. Yes, I had noticed that cavedivers don't always bother with an SMB when they dive in the ocean. But I think both attitudes are wrong when the wreck involved is a known serial killer like the Doria. What is the worst that can happen to Dave Sutton's "lunatic" who insists on running a reel inside the wreck? The current opposes him, he fumbles, the reel gets tangled up and he's forced to retreat humiliated, no doubt to rude remarks from Dave. But what is the worst that happens to the guy without a reel? He gets caught in worsening visibility, loses his way hopelessly and dies inside the wreck. It's happened before there, and it's also nearly happened before. So why risk your life more than you have to? Cheers, Charles. Last edited by solocavediver : 9th February 2007 at 11:33. Reason: (noticed Dave's earlier comments)
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9th February 2007, 13:03	#17 (permalink)
O.C.Diver Helium Addict Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Salisbury MD USA Summers; Wandering Florida Winters Posts: 217	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? While I'm not going to debate whether or not to use a reel within the Doria, reels tend to embolden divers in wrecks encouraging them to go father to places they shouldn't. The inside of the Doria is a catacomb of sharp edges and entanglements. More than one diver has found his line parted on the way out either from a sharp edge or an idiot who became entangled in it. A simple rule of thumb for the Doria: Don't go anywhere you can't feel your way out. Sooner or later the vis will turn to sh*t and your line will part. Another good warm up dive for the Doria if not already mentioned is the Choapa off NY/NJ. Bring 2 knives for the monofiliment and nets. Ted __________________ Consider this my opinion.......sometimes I'm even right, but remember.........YMMV. Ted Green Charter Boat "OC Diver" http://www.ocdiver.com
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9th February 2007, 14:36	#18 (permalink)
NEwreckdiver New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Boston MA Posts: 49	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? The Doria is deep, has high current and often limited visibility. The wreck is breaking down so it is less straightforward to navigate. On a first dive/trip - be conservative, watch your gas and have fun - don't set objectives like "must see X", etc.... But to your question about preparation - I have found what makes the Doria hardest is that you're tired and beat up by the time you arrive on the wreck. Surface conditions can be lousy more often than not... you don't sleep well ... and on top of all this you've been hauling gear around and driving to Montauk (not the easiest place to get to). You will probably be tired at the outset - not an ideal way to start a trip. So all those wrecks you are planning to dive in preparation .... pick the deep, dark scary ones with lots of current and then don't sleep the night before you dive them... Cheers, Heather Knowles
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9th February 2007, 14:38	#19 (permalink)
diverklondike Just one of the Peasants Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,608	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? Quote: (Originally Posted by O.C.Diver) While I'm not going to debate whether or not to use a reel within the Doria, reels tend to embolden divers in wrecks encouraging them to go father to places they shouldn't. The inside of the Doria is a catacomb of sharp edges and entanglements. More than one diver has found his line parted on the way out either from a sharp edge or an idiot who became entangled in it. A simple rule of thumb for the Doria: Don't go anywhere you can't feel your way out. Sooner or later the vis will turn to sh*t and your line will part. Another good warm up dive for the Doria if not already mentioned is the Choapa off NY/NJ. Bring 2 knives for the monofiliment and nets. Ted The Choapa is an awesome prep dive.... Cold.... Low vis... etc... This wreck is in the NJ "Mud Hole"...
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9th February 2007, 19:17	#20 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 793	Re: Prep wrecks for Doria?? Suggestions?? Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) The Choapa is an awesome prep dive.... Cold.... Low vis... etc... This wreck is in the NJ "Mud Hole"... I was taught that the "Doria" was a prerequisite for the "Choapa" If time allows contact Sea Turtle Charters.com,wreckdiving,sharkcage,montauk,blockis land,longisland Chuck is out of Montauk and a lot of local stuff has limited viz and rip roaring currents __________________ Safe Diving, Martin Last edited by dive2dive2000 : 9th February 2007 at 19:30.
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