German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea

aki · 27th July 2006, 11:40

Apparently today, July 27th, Polish Navy has confirmed that a 265m long wreck, which was found near Leba on July 12th by ship belonging to Petrobaltic (a Polish oil company) is a German aircraft carrier, Graf Zeppelin. The wreck lies at 80 meters.

--
Aki

jhaaja · 27th July 2006, 11:54

There were also discussions on swedish www.dykarna.nu site and also Ocean Discovery forum.

That would be a nice wreck to dive...

Pic from side scan sonar (I think)

http://xs304.xs.to/xs304/06303/GZ_1.jpg

JH

Johnny Christensen · 27th July 2006, 12:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja)

That would be a nice wreck to dive...

JH

Well yes, to say "I have done it" would be somewhat cool. But a aircraft carrier is a lot of flightdeck, and almost no superstructure. So there is 99% of the time swimming / scootering and looking at a flat deck.

jhaaja · 27th July 2006, 12:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Johnny Christensen)

Well yes, to say "I have done it" would be somewhat cool. But a aircraft carrier is a lot of flightdeck, and almost no superstructure. So there is 99% of the time swimming / scootering and looking at a flat deck.

Is there a possibility that a 265m long and over 30m wide ship has also some nice space inside

JH

fr0sty8 · 27th July 2006, 18:39

Typically a carrier will have plenty of space to explore. The hangarbays wont be much to see unless there are still pieces or aircraft lingering. Otherwise there can be 2 to 3 decks of compartments between the hangar and flightdeck. Below the hangar can get hairy because of the narrowness of the ladderwells. There can be anywhere from 5 to 9 decks below the hangarbay.
Wish I was there to partake on this adventure.

E

racer7 · 27th July 2006, 19:29

History of this ship, a "wannabee" with no combat history, is pretty well known except for any changes made to it by Soviets prior to their sinking it as a target exercise. It may contain unexploded bombs.

See here for photos etc
http://www.maritimequest.com/warship...f_zeppelin.htm

Brits invented the carrier, Americans perfected it (purloining a lot of Brit ideas while doing so), Germans and Russians never got close, the Japanese could not sustain their carrier efforts in the face of sinkings/loss of skilled officers/industrial capacity,etc. Carrier battle groups remain hugely expensive weapons sytems beyond the technical and financial means of all current economies except the US, requiring everything from several types of specialized aircraft to state of the art computerized missile defence systems and many thousands of sailors. The huge costs generate regular budget debates even in the US. Not surprising the Soviets used it for a target ship - it would have been quite obvious that it was obsolete (and unusable to them in any case) at the time.

jhaaja · 28th July 2006, 06:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by racer7)

History of this ship, a "wannabee" with no combat history, is pretty well known except for any changes made to it by Soviets prior to their sinking it as a target exercise. It may contain unexploded bombs.

See here for photos etc
http://www.maritimequest.com/warship...f_zeppelin.htm

Brits invented the carrier, Americans perfected it (purloining a lot of Brit ideas while doing so), Germans and Russians never got close, the Japanese could not sustain their carrier efforts in the face of sinkings/loss of skilled officers/industrial capacity,etc. Carrier battle groups remain hugely expensive weapons sytems beyond the technical and financial means of all current economies except the US, requiring everything from several types of specialized aircraft to state of the art computerized missile defence systems and many thousands of sailors. The huge costs generate regular budget debates even in the US. Not surprising the Soviets used it for a target ship - it would have been quite obvious that it was obsolete (and unusable to them in any case) at the time.

At the time of the sinking 1947 the Cold War had begun. So I think it was wise for the russians to train on sinking a aircraft carrier... That is the best use to it, because they could not use it as a battle ship.

Hopefully there will be trips to this site soon...

JH

bubnotbub · 28th July 2006, 06:33

Hi,
if someone organize a trip on this spot,
please keep me in touch,
i'm really interested.

Best regards

Aldo

Explorer · 28th July 2006, 07:09

Quote:
Polish Navy Commander Dariusz Beczek holds up an images showing with near certainty that a sunken ship in the Baltic Sea is the Graf Zeppelin, Nazi Germany's only aircraft carrier, on Thursday July 27, 2006 in Gdansk, Poland. The discovery is expected to shed more light on the fate of the ship, which was last seen 59 years ago. The top image shows a Nazi-era drawing of the ship, the second a sonar picture made this week by the Polish navy, and the last, a photograph made in the 1930s during the building of the ship. The size and other characterists of the old photographs and new sonar pictures match up exactly. (AP Photo/Wojtek Jakubowski )

Andy M · 28th July 2006, 07:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by racer7)

Carrier battle groups remain hugely expensive weapons sytems beyond the technical and financial means of all current economies except the US, requiring everything from several types of specialized aircraft to state of the art computerized missile defence systems and many thousands of sailors.

Errr, may I point you to the forthcoming HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales? 65,000 tons, 274m long.

I dont think it is a budget issue, its an issue of whether something is needed or not.

27th July 2006, 11:40	#1 (permalink)
aki Inspiration Vision Diver Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Stockholm. Sweden Posts: 117	German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea Apparently today, July 27th, Polish Navy has confirmed that a 265m long wreck, which was found near Leba on July 12th by ship belonging to Petrobaltic (a Polish oil company) is a German aircraft carrier, Graf Zeppelin. The wreck lies at 80 meters. -- Aki
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27th July 2006, 11:54	#2 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 883	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea There were also discussions on swedish www.dykarna.nu site and also Ocean Discovery forum. That would be a nice wreck to dive... Pic from side scan sonar (I think) http://xs304.xs.to/xs304/06303/GZ_1.jpg JH
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27th July 2006, 12:54	#3 (permalink)
Johnny Christensen Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 298	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea Quote: (Originally Posted by jhaaja) That would be a nice wreck to dive... JH Well yes, to say "I have done it" would be somewhat cool. But a aircraft carrier is a lot of flightdeck, and almost no superstructure. So there is 99% of the time swimming / scootering and looking at a flat deck. __________________ www.johnnychristensen.com Wreckphotography from the cold north
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27th July 2006, 12:59	#4 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 883	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea Quote: (Originally Posted by Johnny Christensen) Well yes, to say "I have done it" would be somewhat cool. But a aircraft carrier is a lot of flightdeck, and almost no superstructure. So there is 99% of the time swimming / scootering and looking at a flat deck. Is there a possibility that a 265m long and over 30m wide ship has also some nice space inside JH
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27th July 2006, 18:39	#5 (permalink)
fr0sty8 Evo Driver - no standing! Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 158	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea Typically a carrier will have plenty of space to explore. The hangarbays wont be much to see unless there are still pieces or aircraft lingering. Otherwise there can be 2 to 3 decks of compartments between the hangar and flightdeck. Below the hangar can get hairy because of the narrowness of the ladderwells. There can be anywhere from 5 to 9 decks below the hangarbay. Wish I was there to partake on this adventure. E
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27th July 2006, 19:29	#6 (permalink)
racer7 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: USA Posts: 5	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea History of this ship, a "wannabee" with no combat history, is pretty well known except for any changes made to it by Soviets prior to their sinking it as a target exercise. It may contain unexploded bombs. See here for photos etc http://www.maritimequest.com/warship...f_zeppelin.htm Brits invented the carrier, Americans perfected it (purloining a lot of Brit ideas while doing so), Germans and Russians never got close, the Japanese could not sustain their carrier efforts in the face of sinkings/loss of skilled officers/industrial capacity,etc. Carrier battle groups remain hugely expensive weapons sytems beyond the technical and financial means of all current economies except the US, requiring everything from several types of specialized aircraft to state of the art computerized missile defence systems and many thousands of sailors. The huge costs generate regular budget debates even in the US. Not surprising the Soviets used it for a target ship - it would have been quite obvious that it was obsolete (and unusable to them in any case) at the time.
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28th July 2006, 06:10	#7 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 883	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea Quote: (Originally Posted by racer7) History of this ship, a "wannabee" with no combat history, is pretty well known except for any changes made to it by Soviets prior to their sinking it as a target exercise. It may contain unexploded bombs. See here for photos etc http://www.maritimequest.com/warship...f_zeppelin.htm Brits invented the carrier, Americans perfected it (purloining a lot of Brit ideas while doing so), Germans and Russians never got close, the Japanese could not sustain their carrier efforts in the face of sinkings/loss of skilled officers/industrial capacity,etc. Carrier battle groups remain hugely expensive weapons sytems beyond the technical and financial means of all current economies except the US, requiring everything from several types of specialized aircraft to state of the art computerized missile defence systems and many thousands of sailors. The huge costs generate regular budget debates even in the US. Not surprising the Soviets used it for a target ship - it would have been quite obvious that it was obsolete (and unusable to them in any case) at the time. At the time of the sinking 1947 the Cold War had begun. So I think it was wise for the russians to train on sinking a aircraft carrier... That is the best use to it, because they could not use it as a battle ship. Hopefully there will be trips to this site soon... JH
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28th July 2006, 06:33	#8 (permalink)
bubnotbub Silent diver Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: France Italy Posts: 388	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea Hi, if someone organize a trip on this spot, please keep me in touch, i'm really interested. Best regards Aldo __________________ Aldo Ferrucci *Trimix and Rebreather IT* *Expedition Leader* *www.bubnotbub.com* I like bubbles only in my glass of Champagne
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28th July 2006, 07:09	#9 (permalink)
Explorer I will teach you a..... Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 759	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea Quote: Polish Navy Commander Dariusz Beczek holds up an images showing with near certainty that a sunken ship in the Baltic Sea is the Graf Zeppelin, Nazi Germany's only aircraft carrier, on Thursday July 27, 2006 in Gdansk, Poland. The discovery is expected to shed more light on the fate of the ship, which was last seen 59 years ago. The top image shows a Nazi-era drawing of the ship, the second a sonar picture made this week by the Polish navy, and the last, a photograph made in the 1930s during the building of the ship. The size and other characterists of the old photographs and new sonar pictures match up exactly. (AP Photo/Wojtek Jakubowski ) __________________ REALLY FRICKIN' TRAIN WRECKED.....
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28th July 2006, 07:27	#10 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 415	Re: German aircraft carrier "Graf Zeppelin" found at Baltic sea Quote: (Originally Posted by racer7) Carrier battle groups remain hugely expensive weapons sytems beyond the technical and financial means of all current economies except the US, requiring everything from several types of specialized aircraft to state of the art computerized missile defence systems and many thousands of sailors. Errr, may I point you to the forthcoming HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales? 65,000 tons, 274m long. I dont think it is a budget issue, its an issue of whether something is needed or not. __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
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