Wreck diving- shot rope tie in

**RichClark** · 25th May 2006, 14:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by leadking)

Nice to know your leaving plastic line in the enviroment. Why not use cotton or manila that will degrade?

We always check and set the line and last up clears the line or fouls it .

To be honest you probably have a point, and it's not something that I'd really considered before.

As dive teams, we tend to follow the Skippers instructions, if he gives me a waster to tie the shot in, thats what I do, then i get on with my dive.

JS1scuba · 25th May 2006, 14:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia)

Hello all,

For all you wreck divers, when diving a wreck after the skipper shots it, what is the procedure ? Do you always tie the shot rope to wreck? How do you do it ? This is after some friends of mine didn't find the shot, as it drifted from the wreck!

Whenever I run a wreck operation we dont take lines loosely. My procedure is always when possible to tie the boat to the wreck. This requires having a tie-in team capable of doing the job and also knowing that the tie-in may be their entire job.

If a boat I have chartered does not have crew capable I bring my own crew.

If conditions warrant dropping grapnel - grapnel is dropped and snagged.
boat lays on grapnel. Tie-in team goes down line at 3 minutes boat motors up to give slack. This lets the tie-in team move the grapnel to a proper spot for BOTH the tie in and tie out. Ideally this will be on a very secure part of the wreckage that can hold the boat for the day or many days if overnighting. The chain needs to be secured in such a way that it does not choke up, and will be easy to free, 20 feet (6 meters) of chain is nice to have. 10 / 3 will do.

Once the chain is set the tie-in team will send up 2 styrofoam coffee cups. This alerts the surface that the anchor is IN and the boat can be readied for diving operations. A good tie in team can send up cups in 7-10 minutes on 200 fsw / 70 msw depths and shallower, About 15 min for deeper depending on currents and conditions. --- The captain will then pull up on the anchor line to take up slack. The gate is then open.

It's not uncommon to wait for the tie in team to come back up and report what the conditions are, where the hook is etc. At most it will be 90 minutes But some may splash before that if the sea conditions are good.

If grapeling the wreck is not going to happen because of fragility of the site then we will still use a tie in team for the shot line. The shot is sent in with a ball on it and a team is sent in to make sure the shot is on the wreck. If not they will do a sweep to find the wreck and put the shot on the site. The shot is secured to the most stable part of the wreck as high as possible to prevent chafing. Once tied in cups are sent up. Slack on the shot is taken up. If the sea conditions are good we might tie the shot line to the stern cleat of the boat and use it as a down line.

Tie Out.

For a shot line with a float the last diver (Tie out team) will go in for a dive and then free the line, put the shot in the sand and do the ascent so if it drifts they still have some security.

For chained in tie-outs it's a little different. The Tie-out team will plan a dive and give themselves 10 minutes for the tie out. At a prescribed time the captain will motor up the vessel to put some slack on the line, the Tie out team will remove shackle, and either foul the chain in the hook and put it in the sand and make ascent or ...... put the hook in such a place that the boat can still hold on it and then just pick it up and make the ascent. If conditions suggest that it might get snagged then the anchor is fouled on the chain and a break-away line is added -- a 6 foot / 2 meter line of sisal or 1/2" poly works fine -- they make the ascent.

Once on board we will -- pick up the shot, pick up the anchor or if a breakaway is in place we will pick up the line until tight, tie it off on the sampson post and put a little power on it to snap the line. (if using poly put some knots in it to make a weak point)

Keep in mind that the above is based on diving off large vessels 45' -85' but the concepts are the same all around. Tie ins are not for the novice to do. Tie ins are dangerous and they require a diver who has their act together. AND require some topside people to have thier act together as well. If you have not done it, hook up with a top crew guy who has and learn how. Once you have it down you can get on ANY wreck any time. I've yet to miss my mark.

Hope this helps you.

Cheers

barney · 25th May 2006, 15:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

We dont do drifting deco - its too dangerous/troublesome. Dont like shots, they only work well on shallow wrecks in mild currents.

The other day the downline snapped when we still had divers on a 78m wreck, 2 knott current, Capt jumped in with a new line, scootered down the anchor cable, drifted over to the wreck and tied in about 3" away from the original tie in location. All in all took total of about 5 mins. Divers returning to the upline didnt even know it had happened!

I guess it all depends what you are used to and what your preference is. We love shots as it makes the captain's job easier of deploying and tracking divers. Have successfully used them in strong currents and deep (e.g., 130 m). Anchoring a vessel in many areas we dive is just not practical (e.g., ~3 knot constant/non-tidal current) and makes the dive harder than it needs to be (pulling down against the line, hanging on deco, etc.). We typically use a hook on the end of our shot as a clump weight is likely to drag along the bottom in the current. Plus, its easier for divers to foul and drift effortlessly on deco.

If it is much past 3 knots, forget about the shot as the ball will just get pulled under.

I would love to have your captain's scooter. Typically, anything just over a true 2 knots and progress along a line or upcurrent is minimal with a scooter. This past weekend we had conflicting surface/bottom currents which screwed up our first drop. Second drop I opted to drop on the line and slide down to make sure I hit the wreck and could recover our shot. I intersected the line at 60 feet and slowly slid/pulled down the line. A few times I stopped to rest and looked back under my arm to see one of my buddies on his scooter trying to reach the line. He bascially just stayed in place. It took me 10 minutes to reach the wreck in 75 m. I loved not having the OC gas issues though, as I could sit there and lay on the line to catch my breath without worries of burning into a much more limited gas supply.

Drmike · 25th May 2006, 17:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by barney)

I guess it all depends what you are used to and what your preference is. We love shots as it makes the captain's job easier of deploying and tracking divers. Have successfully used them in strong currents and deep (e.g., 130 m). Anchoring a vessel in many areas we dive is just not practical (e.g., ~3 knot constant/non-tidal current) and makes the dive harder than it needs to be (pulling down against the line, hanging on deco, etc.). We typically use a hook on the end of our shot as a clump weight is likely to drag along the bottom in the current. Plus, its easier for divers to foul and drift effortlessly on deco.

If it is much past 3 knots, forget about the shot as the ball will just get pulled under.

I would love to have your captain's scooter. Typically, anything just over a true 2 knots and progress along a line or upcurrent is minimal with a scooter. This past weekend we had conflicting surface/bottom currents which screwed up our first drop. Second drop I opted to drop on the line and slide down to make sure I hit the wreck and could recover our shot. I intersected the line at 60 feet and slowly slid/pulled down the line. A few times I stopped to rest and looked back under my arm to see one of my buddies on his scooter trying to reach the line. He bascially just stayed in place. It took me 10 minutes to reach the wreck in 75 m. I loved not having the OC gas issues though, as I could sit there and lay on the line to catch my breath without worries of burning into a much more limited gas supply.

Fred was always a good one for tieing in. I recall once when the scooter was out of service Fred pulling a line from the surface finning all the way down to the wreck at 110m. Our capt only uses the scooter 50% of the time he dives with long freedivers fins...Sometimes it scooter with right hand pull with left hand and fin. I guess its just what we are used to, our cap has been doing this full time for 25years and has perfected this method over all others as anyone who dives with him will confirm.

Our local wrecks prity much see constant current, or nothing at all. I have seen people try to use shots even big ones with large floats - the floats get pulled down by the currents. Shots dont stay, hit and miss. waste of time.

Another reason we always tie in and dont drift deco is due to the fact often the currents are so strong you would drift over the horizon we would have divers all over the place. Divers are in the water at different times, doing different dive durations. Its safer to know where they are during deco (under the boat) we also have a deco platform with surface supplied under the boat. Sure it can sometimes be a bit of a ride on deco but thats why god invented Jon lines

Another good reason we tie in this way is we can get the tie on exactly where we want it. If your diving a large wreck its far better to have the upline tied off right next to the area you wish to explore. Shots are far less accurate.

Mark Chase · 25th May 2006, 18:25

Hey Mike you know the DIR lot will be calling you a stroke for coming up a shot and using a John line

You should be free ascending and deploying an SMB from 6m

Conditions sound very much like Dover. Only problem is the boat can bounce the shot up and down so deco is like riding a bucking bronco but only holding on with your arms.

I find it interesting the various approaches to the problem. In our group we tend to shot the wreck in the tide and then when the buoys surface we know its slack or near to it. Bottom time is often dictated by the current. If it picks up fast on a big spring tide we may only get 30mins on the wreck before we have to ascend.

To avoid getting bounced up and down we usually use a lazy shot. The boat is not tied into the wreck and this leaves it free to fend of oil tankers and cross channel Ferries

When diving inside the shipping lanes we have to use a fixed shot but we all pretty much hate it as the tide can rip your mask of sometimes. On a CCR its quite amusing as your loop hoses flap up and down like crazy

I also find the additional drag of the ccr makes deco on a fixed shot in anything approaching / over knots to be very uncomfortable.

ATB

Mark Chase

barney · 25th May 2006, 18:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Our local wrecks prity much see constant current, or nothing at all. I have seen people try to use shots even big ones with large floats - the floats get pulled down by the currents. Shots dont stay, hit and miss. waste of time.

That's why we use our little grapnel hook - hits on the first throw, and if you know the wrecks orientation and with a good captain, you can generally get it within 100 feet of where you want it. The current pulls it right into the wreck and bam, shot is secure.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Another reason we always tie in and dont drift deco is due to the fact often the currents are so strong you would drift over the horizon we would have divers all over the place. Divers are in the water at different times, doing different dive durations. Its safer to know where they are during deco (under the boat) we also have a deco platform with surface supplied under the boat. Sure it can sometimes be a bit of a ride on deco but thats why god invented Jon lines

We typically are diving off smaller boats with 4-6 divers on day trips or overnighters. It would be nice to have a mate or whatever be able to tie us in, but we can't find any that are willing to dive the wrecks we do!

So we are pretty much on our own and end up splashing as a group. It is not uncommon for us to surface 5 nm from the wreck due to the current, but since we enter and exit together, its not much of an issue. The boat simply follows the big red ball (or liftbags). I can understand the added complexity of diving off a large boat doing a multiple day trip with 10-12+ divers doing different things.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Another good reason we tie in this way is we can get the tie on exactly where we want it. If your diving a large wreck its far better to have the upline tied off right next to the area you wish to explore. Shots are far less accurate.

See above. One one trip we jokingly asked the captain to put the shot into the open conning tower of the U-2513. Damn if he didn't drape the chain directly across the tower and over the hatch! Lucky bastard.

Every system has its pros and cons.

Drmike · 26th May 2006, 03:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by barney)

We typically are diving off smaller boats with 4-6 divers on day trips or overnighters. It would be nice to have a mate or whatever be able to tie us in, but we can't find any that are willing to dive the wrecks we do!

So we are pretty much on our own and end up splashing as a group. It is not uncommon for us to surface 5 nm from the wreck due to the current, but since we enter and exit together, its not much of an issue. The boat simply follows the big red ball (or liftbags). I can understand the added complexity of diving off a large boat doing a multiple day trip with 10-12+ divers doing different things.

See above. One one trip we jokingly asked the captain to put the shot into the open conning tower of the U-2513. Damn if he didn't drape the chain directly across the tower and over the hatch! Lucky bastard.

Ah but did he ever tie on the downline a foot away from the ships bell? First thing divers saw when they got to the end of the line

...Funny it wasnt there when the divers returned to ascend at the end of their dive....

Drmike · 26th May 2006, 04:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Hey Mike you know the DIR lot will be calling you a stroke for coming up a shot and using a John line

You should be free ascending and deploying an SMB from 6m

You joke - but there has been a number of 'GUE' charters on the boat (one just a few weeks ago) They tell the cap how they want to do deco (free floating) he listens politely, then says NO. At the end of these charters they understand why.

I have rescued several GUE boys who attempt to free float - or even worse (funnier) use the upline as 'visual guide' only...so funny seeing them trying to hold position mid water without holding the line in a 2 knott current! lol!

One of the funniest things Ive see/done diving was to rescue one of these GUE die hards who earlier on had been looking at me out of the corner of his eye on the boat huddled in the corner with the rest of his clones. When he lost the line I fetched him back - the look in his eyes was classic. As he looked through fear widened eyes at the worlds biggest stroke (CCR diver wearing a FFM) his eyes said 'Im gald your here - but you really are the last person on the planet I want to help me'

Quote:

Conditions sound very much like Dover. Only problem is the boat can bounce the shot up and down so deco is like riding a bucking bronco but only holding on with your arms.

The downline isnt attached to the deco platform and has slack, anchor holds boat. This way theres less bucking on the upline.

In addition a well designed deco platform with ropes extending forward attached to the anchor line helps minimise bucking during deco - but you are right it can still be fun at times.

Quote:

I find it interesting the various approaches to the problem. In our group we tend to shot the wreck in the tide and then when the buoys surface we know its slack or near to it. Bottom time is often dictated by the current. If it picks up fast on a big spring tide we may only get 30mins on the wreck before we have to ascend.

agreed that method works if the slack window is big enough and depending on what current (surface/bottom) is the limiting factor. Generally where we have slack we need to start the dive/descent just before slack in order to be exiting the water at the end of slack. Not fun getting it wrong

Quote:

When diving inside the shipping lanes we have to use a fixed shot but we all pretty much hate it as the tide can rip your mask of sometimes. On a CCR its quite amusing as your loop hoses flap up and down like crazy

I also find the additional drag of the ccr makes deco on a fixed shot in anything approaching / over knots to be very uncomfortable.

lol

yeh been there! My inspiration was the worse as the CL would be a real pain. Used to clip on, tuck my head down and think of England!

barney · 26th May 2006, 04:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Ah but did he ever tie on the downline a foot away from the ships bell? First thing divers saw when they got to the end of the line

...Funny it wasnt there when the divers returned to ascend at the end of their dive....

Bell? No.
Telegraph? Yes.

JS1scuba · 26th May 2006, 05:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

You joke - but there has been a number of 'GUE' charters on the boat (one just a few weeks ago) They tell the cap how they want to do deco (free floating) he listens politely, then says NO. At the end of these charters they understand why.

It's always fun when I have some of them on board. They just completed some course or was diving someplace and now we have to get set up on a hard wreck in 70 msw with a running current and a swell. They wonder why the tie in team has three knives (that can cut anchor rode) a cresent wrench for the shackle and at the last minute before rolling blow off the 2nd stage bottle for ease of movement.

With wide eyes after they do a dive they wonder how we ever got it tied in.

It's amusing to say the least.

---
I just want to know what happened after the Capt said no.... did they sit out the dive ?

Cheers

25th May 2006, 14:10	#11 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 778	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by leadking) Nice to know your leaving plastic line in the enviroment. Why not use cotton or manila that will degrade? We always check and set the line and last up clears the line or fouls it . To be honest you probably have a point, and it's not something that I'd really considered before. As dive teams, we tend to follow the Skippers instructions, if he gives me a waster to tie the shot in, thats what I do, then i get on with my dive. __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk Last edited by RichClark : 25th May 2006 at 15:01.
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25th May 2006, 14:56	#12 (permalink)
JS1scuba RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ - USA Posts: 513	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by Pierre Farrugia) Hello all, For all you wreck divers, when diving a wreck after the skipper shots it, what is the procedure ? Do you always tie the shot rope to wreck? How do you do it ? This is after some friends of mine didn't find the shot, as it drifted from the wreck! Whenever I run a wreck operation we dont take lines loosely. My procedure is always when possible to tie the boat to the wreck. This requires having a tie-in team capable of doing the job and also knowing that the tie-in may be their entire job. If a boat I have chartered does not have crew capable I bring my own crew. If conditions warrant dropping grapnel - grapnel is dropped and snagged. boat lays on grapnel. Tie-in team goes down line at 3 minutes boat motors up to give slack. This lets the tie-in team move the grapnel to a proper spot for BOTH the tie in and tie out. Ideally this will be on a very secure part of the wreckage that can hold the boat for the day or many days if overnighting. The chain needs to be secured in such a way that it does not choke up, and will be easy to free, 20 feet (6 meters) of chain is nice to have. 10 / 3 will do. Once the chain is set the tie-in team will send up 2 styrofoam coffee cups. This alerts the surface that the anchor is IN and the boat can be readied for diving operations. A good tie in team can send up cups in 7-10 minutes on 200 fsw / 70 msw depths and shallower, About 15 min for deeper depending on currents and conditions. --- The captain will then pull up on the anchor line to take up slack. The gate is then open. It's not uncommon to wait for the tie in team to come back up and report what the conditions are, where the hook is etc. At most it will be 90 minutes But some may splash before that if the sea conditions are good. If grapeling the wreck is not going to happen because of fragility of the site then we will still use a tie in team for the shot line. The shot is sent in with a ball on it and a team is sent in to make sure the shot is on the wreck. If not they will do a sweep to find the wreck and put the shot on the site. The shot is secured to the most stable part of the wreck as high as possible to prevent chafing. Once tied in cups are sent up. Slack on the shot is taken up. If the sea conditions are good we might tie the shot line to the stern cleat of the boat and use it as a down line. Tie Out. For a shot line with a float the last diver (Tie out team) will go in for a dive and then free the line, put the shot in the sand and do the ascent so if it drifts they still have some security. For chained in tie-outs it's a little different. The Tie-out team will plan a dive and give themselves 10 minutes for the tie out. At a prescribed time the captain will motor up the vessel to put some slack on the line, the Tie out team will remove shackle, and either foul the chain in the hook and put it in the sand and make ascent or ...... put the hook in such a place that the boat can still hold on it and then just pick it up and make the ascent. If conditions suggest that it might get snagged then the anchor is fouled on the chain and a break-away line is added -- a 6 foot / 2 meter line of sisal or 1/2" poly works fine -- they make the ascent. Once on board we will -- pick up the shot, pick up the anchor or if a breakaway is in place we will pick up the line until tight, tie it off on the sampson post and put a little power on it to snap the line. (if using poly put some knots in it to make a weak point) Keep in mind that the above is based on diving off large vessels 45' -85' but the concepts are the same all around. Tie ins are not for the novice to do. Tie ins are dangerous and they require a diver who has their act together. AND require some topside people to have thier act together as well. If you have not done it, hook up with a top crew guy who has and learn how. Once you have it down you can get on ANY wreck any time. I've yet to miss my mark. Hope this helps you. Cheers __________________ Joel Silverstein, VP COO Tech Diving Limited a Division of Scuba Training and Technology Inc. http://www.nautilusdiveplanner.com http://www.nobubblediving.com
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25th May 2006, 15:37	#13 (permalink)
barney Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 288	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) We dont do drifting deco - its too dangerous/troublesome. Dont like shots, they only work well on shallow wrecks in mild currents. The other day the downline snapped when we still had divers on a 78m wreck, 2 knott current, Capt jumped in with a new line, scootered down the anchor cable, drifted over to the wreck and tied in about 3" away from the original tie in location. All in all took total of about 5 mins. Divers returning to the upline didnt even know it had happened! I guess it all depends what you are used to and what your preference is. We love shots as it makes the captain's job easier of deploying and tracking divers. Have successfully used them in strong currents and deep (e.g., 130 m). Anchoring a vessel in many areas we dive is just not practical (e.g., ~3 knot constant/non-tidal current) and makes the dive harder than it needs to be (pulling down against the line, hanging on deco, etc.). We typically use a hook on the end of our shot as a clump weight is likely to drag along the bottom in the current. Plus, its easier for divers to foul and drift effortlessly on deco. If it is much past 3 knots, forget about the shot as the ball will just get pulled under. I would love to have your captain's scooter. Typically, anything just over a true 2 knots and progress along a line or upcurrent is minimal with a scooter. This past weekend we had conflicting surface/bottom currents which screwed up our first drop. Second drop I opted to drop on the line and slide down to make sure I hit the wreck and could recover our shot. I intersected the line at 60 feet and slowly slid/pulled down the line. A few times I stopped to rest and looked back under my arm to see one of my buddies on his scooter trying to reach the line. He bascially just stayed in place. It took me 10 minutes to reach the wreck in 75 m. I loved not having the OC gas issues though, as I could sit there and lay on the line to catch my breath without worries of burning into a much more limited gas supply. __________________ Michael C. Barnette ASSOCIATION OF UNDERWATER EXPLORERS
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25th May 2006, 17:28	#14 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by barney) I guess it all depends what you are used to and what your preference is. We love shots as it makes the captain's job easier of deploying and tracking divers. Have successfully used them in strong currents and deep (e.g., 130 m). Anchoring a vessel in many areas we dive is just not practical (e.g., ~3 knot constant/non-tidal current) and makes the dive harder than it needs to be (pulling down against the line, hanging on deco, etc.). We typically use a hook on the end of our shot as a clump weight is likely to drag along the bottom in the current. Plus, its easier for divers to foul and drift effortlessly on deco. If it is much past 3 knots, forget about the shot as the ball will just get pulled under. I would love to have your captain's scooter. Typically, anything just over a true 2 knots and progress along a line or upcurrent is minimal with a scooter. This past weekend we had conflicting surface/bottom currents which screwed up our first drop. Second drop I opted to drop on the line and slide down to make sure I hit the wreck and could recover our shot. I intersected the line at 60 feet and slowly slid/pulled down the line. A few times I stopped to rest and looked back under my arm to see one of my buddies on his scooter trying to reach the line. He bascially just stayed in place. It took me 10 minutes to reach the wreck in 75 m. I loved not having the OC gas issues though, as I could sit there and lay on the line to catch my breath without worries of burning into a much more limited gas supply. Fred was always a good one for tieing in. I recall once when the scooter was out of service Fred pulling a line from the surface finning all the way down to the wreck at 110m. Our capt only uses the scooter 50% of the time he dives with long freedivers fins...Sometimes it scooter with right hand pull with left hand and fin. I guess its just what we are used to, our cap has been doing this full time for 25years and has perfected this method over all others as anyone who dives with him will confirm. Our local wrecks prity much see constant current, or nothing at all. I have seen people try to use shots even big ones with large floats - the floats get pulled down by the currents. Shots dont stay, hit and miss. waste of time. Another reason we always tie in and dont drift deco is due to the fact often the currents are so strong you would drift over the horizon we would have divers all over the place. Divers are in the water at different times, doing different dive durations. Its safer to know where they are during deco (under the boat) we also have a deco platform with surface supplied under the boat. Sure it can sometimes be a bit of a ride on deco but thats why god invented Jon lines Another good reason we tie in this way is we can get the tie on exactly where we want it. If your diving a large wreck its far better to have the upline tied off right next to the area you wish to explore. Shots are far less accurate. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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25th May 2006, 18:25	#15 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,700	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Hey Mike you know the DIR lot will be calling you a stroke for coming up a shot and using a John line You should be free ascending and deploying an SMB from 6m Conditions sound very much like Dover. Only problem is the boat can bounce the shot up and down so deco is like riding a bucking bronco but only holding on with your arms. I find it interesting the various approaches to the problem. In our group we tend to shot the wreck in the tide and then when the buoys surface we know its slack or near to it. Bottom time is often dictated by the current. If it picks up fast on a big spring tide we may only get 30mins on the wreck before we have to ascend. To avoid getting bounced up and down we usually use a lazy shot. The boat is not tied into the wreck and this leaves it free to fend of oil tankers and cross channel Ferries When diving inside the shipping lanes we have to use a fixed shot but we all pretty much hate it as the tide can rip your mask of sometimes. On a CCR its quite amusing as your loop hoses flap up and down like crazy I also find the additional drag of the ccr makes deco on a fixed shot in anything approaching / over knots to be very uncomfortable. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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25th May 2006, 18:37	#16 (permalink)
barney Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 288	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Our local wrecks prity much see constant current, or nothing at all. I have seen people try to use shots even big ones with large floats - the floats get pulled down by the currents. Shots dont stay, hit and miss. waste of time. That's why we use our little grapnel hook - hits on the first throw, and if you know the wrecks orientation and with a good captain, you can generally get it within 100 feet of where you want it. The current pulls it right into the wreck and bam, shot is secure. Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Another reason we always tie in and dont drift deco is due to the fact often the currents are so strong you would drift over the horizon we would have divers all over the place. Divers are in the water at different times, doing different dive durations. Its safer to know where they are during deco (under the boat) we also have a deco platform with surface supplied under the boat. Sure it can sometimes be a bit of a ride on deco but thats why god invented Jon lines We typically are diving off smaller boats with 4-6 divers on day trips or overnighters. It would be nice to have a mate or whatever be able to tie us in, but we can't find any that are willing to dive the wrecks we do! So we are pretty much on our own and end up splashing as a group. It is not uncommon for us to surface 5 nm from the wreck due to the current, but since we enter and exit together, its not much of an issue. The boat simply follows the big red ball (or liftbags). I can understand the added complexity of diving off a large boat doing a multiple day trip with 10-12+ divers doing different things. Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Another good reason we tie in this way is we can get the tie on exactly where we want it. If your diving a large wreck its far better to have the upline tied off right next to the area you wish to explore. Shots are far less accurate. See above. One one trip we jokingly asked the captain to put the shot into the open conning tower of the U-2513. Damn if he didn't drape the chain directly across the tower and over the hatch! Lucky bastard. Every system has its pros and cons. __________________ Michael C. Barnette ASSOCIATION OF UNDERWATER EXPLORERS
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26th May 2006, 03:45	#17 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by barney) We typically are diving off smaller boats with 4-6 divers on day trips or overnighters. It would be nice to have a mate or whatever be able to tie us in, but we can't find any that are willing to dive the wrecks we do! So we are pretty much on our own and end up splashing as a group. It is not uncommon for us to surface 5 nm from the wreck due to the current, but since we enter and exit together, its not much of an issue. The boat simply follows the big red ball (or liftbags). I can understand the added complexity of diving off a large boat doing a multiple day trip with 10-12+ divers doing different things. See above. One one trip we jokingly asked the captain to put the shot into the open conning tower of the U-2513. Damn if he didn't drape the chain directly across the tower and over the hatch! Lucky bastard. Ah but did he ever tie on the downline a foot away from the ships bell? First thing divers saw when they got to the end of the line ...Funny it wasnt there when the divers returned to ascend at the end of their dive.... __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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26th May 2006, 04:04	#18 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,325	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Hey Mike you know the DIR lot will be calling you a stroke for coming up a shot and using a John line You should be free ascending and deploying an SMB from 6m You joke - but there has been a number of 'GUE' charters on the boat (one just a few weeks ago) They tell the cap how they want to do deco (free floating) he listens politely, then says NO. At the end of these charters they understand why. I have rescued several GUE boys who attempt to free float - or even worse (funnier) use the upline as 'visual guide' only...so funny seeing them trying to hold position mid water without holding the line in a 2 knott current! lol! One of the funniest things Ive see/done diving was to rescue one of these GUE die hards who earlier on had been looking at me out of the corner of his eye on the boat huddled in the corner with the rest of his clones. When he lost the line I fetched him back - the look in his eyes was classic. As he looked through fear widened eyes at the worlds biggest stroke (CCR diver wearing a FFM) his eyes said 'Im gald your here - but you really are the last person on the planet I want to help me' Quote: Conditions sound very much like Dover. Only problem is the boat can bounce the shot up and down so deco is like riding a bucking bronco but only holding on with your arms. The downline isnt attached to the deco platform and has slack, anchor holds boat. This way theres less bucking on the upline. In addition a well designed deco platform with ropes extending forward attached to the anchor line helps minimise bucking during deco - but you are right it can still be fun at times. Quote: I find it interesting the various approaches to the problem. In our group we tend to shot the wreck in the tide and then when the buoys surface we know its slack or near to it. Bottom time is often dictated by the current. If it picks up fast on a big spring tide we may only get 30mins on the wreck before we have to ascend. agreed that method works if the slack window is big enough and depending on what current (surface/bottom) is the limiting factor. Generally where we have slack we need to start the dive/descent just before slack in order to be exiting the water at the end of slack. Not fun getting it wrong Quote: When diving inside the shipping lanes we have to use a fixed shot but we all pretty much hate it as the tide can rip your mask of sometimes. On a CCR its quite amusing as your loop hoses flap up and down like crazy I also find the additional drag of the ccr makes deco on a fixed shot in anything approaching / over knots to be very uncomfortable. lol yeh been there! My inspiration was the worse as the CL would be a real pain. Used to clip on, tuck my head down and think of England! __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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26th May 2006, 04:11	#19 (permalink)
barney Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 288	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Ah but did he ever tie on the downline a foot away from the ships bell? First thing divers saw when they got to the end of the line ...Funny it wasnt there when the divers returned to ascend at the end of their dive.... Bell? No. Telegraph? Yes. __________________ Michael C. Barnette ASSOCIATION OF UNDERWATER EXPLORERS
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26th May 2006, 05:17	#20 (permalink)
JS1scuba RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ - USA Posts: 513	Re: Wreck diving- shot rope tie in Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) You joke - but there has been a number of 'GUE' charters on the boat (one just a few weeks ago) They tell the cap how they want to do deco (free floating) he listens politely, then says NO. At the end of these charters they understand why. It's always fun when I have some of them on board. They just completed some course or was diving someplace and now we have to get set up on a hard wreck in 70 msw with a running current and a swell. They wonder why the tie in team has three knives (that can cut anchor rode) a cresent wrench for the shackle and at the last minute before rolling blow off the 2nd stage bottle for ease of movement. With wide eyes after they do a dive they wonder how we ever got it tied in. It's amusing to say the least. --- I just want to know what happened after the Capt said no.... did they sit out the dive ? Cheers __________________ Joel Silverstein, VP COO Tech Diving Limited a Division of Scuba Training and Technology Inc. http://www.nautilusdiveplanner.com http://www.nobubblediving.com
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