Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips

Genesis · 15th January 2007, 18:52

Yeah, I heard about the 'sorb on the deck stuff. Bad news on an aluminum decked boat, which this apparently is! LOTS of damage very fast.

Rebreathers and aluminum decked boats (and many larger boats are) have an inherent problem if there is a caustic problem or spill. They NEED some place where rebreathers are "safe" to handle on them, where the deck is NOT aluminum and can be flushed down with LOTS of water after use so that sorb "stuff" doesn't end up on the aluminum deck plating. There is really no other solution to this problem because sorb and aluminum = "fizz", and that's very bad.

Beyond that however the proper fix is found through fixing the liability problem instead of trying to play "nanny". You'll never succeed with the latter.

BTW, does this boat allow solo diving OC? I saw the huge emphasis on buddy diving with gasbags - do they actually allow solo for OC divers, or is that just a matter of "no matter what you must have a buddy"? If the former (OC can dive solo but not rebreathers) then that's a blatent sort of discrimination that nobody should accept.

Gobfish1 · 15th January 2007, 19:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck)

Yep, we have an insane amount of barriers and limitations.

One of our problems is that the boat had an accident and it has made the process worse than normal. So now we have to deal with containment issues for blown scrubber and how to work within their envelope of their acceptable limits.

I am sorry if I came off a little harsh but it has been hard work and some people cruise these boards looking for reasons to inhibit the growth process.

Not to mention this is one of the few good size boats that makes it out to the gardens. 110 miles off shore, 60 ft floor to the tie in, 80 degree water temp, and lots of incredible life. Hammerheads in the spring, occasional interesting sharks, mantas, lots cool stuff.

Now we just need to keep our noses clean and things will be looking good.

Andrew

Andrew

I was out in Singapore last year, 100 miles out, I went diving at 6am
Dived a well know battle ship out that way, had the wreck all to my self
All 600 foot of it , not a word from the boat skipper , just a cupa tea waiting for me when I finished my 145min dive .

just spend your money on the best diving you can get , dont piss it away and get no return for it ,

it looks like a grate boat hope one day you can get some grate diving off her,

stay safe M8

Genesis · 15th January 2007, 19:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gobfish1)

just spend your money on the best diving you can get , dont piss it away and get no return for it ,

EXACTLY.

We have these problems because we keep paying for the service we're offered.

If we stop but let people know there's demand out there, we provide incentive for others to fill that demand. Basic economics folks.

If you knuckle under, then you get what you bought..... which isn't what you want.... and you don't provide economic incentives for people to sell what you do want to buy, because once your money is spent, its gone!

Crazyduck · 15th January 2007, 19:40

Ladies and Gents,
We are dealing with a different type of diver/ animal here.

In the UK, you guys are use to cold, dark, and deep. Your charters of divers are hardy and well experienced.

Here I have been on the boat with divers that have less than 25 dives and now they are diving in the open ocean. The Gulf is a nasty mistress and the weather changes in a blink of an eye. The boat recommends at least an advanced rating but some people are sloppy and do not have the rigor that I feel they should have. When I lead groups we have meetings about dive profiles, everyone dives nitrox, we stress hydration, ascent rates, and practice going to a pool or lake a blowing a smb. I am an evil mistress…. However, my people have the stuff stowed and know that what is expected.

Five dives between 8am and the night dive at 8pm that evening.
Then two dives the next day. That’s why they drop the limits of 100ft- they are concerned for the weakest link.

As a comparison-
I run tons of profiles, analyzed maps of the site, dive with two computers so I can put in a 60 minute dives and surface with a nice slow ascent rate, pull all my safety stops and using a stl 95Cu ft tank. I do all of this work to get the most out of a dive.

Meanwhile, other people show up and do the same dive on air with plastic tables.
I actually had a teaching session with two ladies on my last outing- asking them about ascent rates and safety stops- they were not doing any… I wanted to strangle someone.

G-man – I totally agree with you mate.
We are looking into visiting the Cocos Islands and sailing with the Undersea Hunter. Looks like fun!

Best Regards, Andrew

Karl- I am not ignoring you mate.
I agree…

Genesis · 15th January 2007, 19:44

Oh I hear 'ya on the "you never know what you're going to get" thing.

ALL of our local diving here is in the 80-130+ range. There's basically ONE site under 60', and that's 57 to the sand! There are no "little reef dives" around this area...

What I've seen on the commercial boats is truly frightening.

Thus, I own a boat - that way I get all the cost but I also get all the freedom I want......

Gobfish1 · 15th January 2007, 19:57

Andrew
Your spot on M8,
you got to look after the weakest link.
That will always dictate what you can, and can not do,
Cocos Islands sounds like fun, Hope you like some ripping currents

Stay safe and enjoy

**nigelh** · 15th January 2007, 20:16

Going back to Steve G's comment that started today's flurry it does seem strange how US boats are frightened of rebreathers while here in the UK, as he says, since technical diving has pretty much gone rebreather they are the people the boats are trying to attract.

On most of the interesting trips I do these days a twinset is getting to be the oddity (that's the ones where we booked up to dive a named wreck, not just 'going diving'). Serious divers in the UK, the ones that pay a charter rather than diving off the beach, tend, more and more, to dive rebreathers. Even my local club is rethinking it bottle-racks on the RIBs to handle more and more rebreathers year by year. Three of us planned to pay the excess and take the rebreathers on the club Red Sea trip this year and the others who decided not too were suitably annoyed when they checked all our baggage as one lump and we got on free (me with 42Kgs

). The live aboards seem to especially like us but that's probably because they don't have to spend so much time filling tanks.

Crazyduck · 15th January 2007, 21:31

While I am far from being a fan of the inspiration system; it has truly seemed to open up certain areas in rebreather diving in England. The rebreather evolution and all the divers, support gear, protocols, added benefits, mix on the fly, all support deep diving, exploration, live aboards, along with travel.
That in itself is a splendid track for the evolution of rebreather divers in the UK and the continent.

Here in the US, we seem to need certain areas to develop before we can get the ‘super critical mass’ we need to break out into the larger US market place. Either ‘deep wreck’ divers out of back east, ‘cave divers’ out of Florida (US dive Mecca) or other variances such as scientific divers or another special sub-sect.

I am hoping with major recreational training agencies going towards technical diving (not that I support that) we will see the next step as rebreather development.
Too many dive shops have the mind set of the nineties and that 'devil gas'- with rebreathers but another few years and I am seriously hopeful that things will crack open. After that- the world will open up.

However, everyone does make a good point and I am far from disputing that facts on the direct limitations on dive boats.
Honestly, if I am 110 miles from shore and I really ‘make a mess out of the dive’- I want that extra time and gas supply that a rebreather will provide me.

Great chat guys…
Andrew

**fireman** · 16th January 2007, 01:38

I think people are too quick to take offence around here. I think it is informative what is and isn't tolerated elsewhere. With regard to this dive charter engaging the captain in dialog, as you seem to be doing is great. The next step is probably to get more people to dive on the boat and not have any accidents....

PacketSniffer · 5th February 2008, 20:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by fireman)

The next step is probably to get more people to dive on the boat and not have any accidents....

2007 was a accident-free year on the Spree for rebreathers. Although, I'm the one with the overhwhelming majority of the dives. But, I'm crew so I don't count.

The reason for this post is to bring attention to new Rebreather divers in the area this rebreather friendly operator. Also, the rebreather policy has been modified this year to allow an increased depth limit of 140fsw on every dive. Remember, this is on sport trips.

For those that want few restrictions, that would be the tech trips aboard the Spree where scooters, deep water, and trimix are welcomed. Example: 5 Day Live-Aboard Deep Wreck Trip in June '08 around the Dry Tortugas (which I'll be on

). There is another tech trip in the fall that is being put together for the Gulf of Mexico Brine Seep.

Note: I'm not being compensated for this post in any way. Partly, it's my selfish attempt to generate more Rebreather dive buddies for gulf diving. I know you guys are hiding in the Texas foot hills.

15th January 2007, 18:52	#31 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,453	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips Yeah, I heard about the 'sorb on the deck stuff. Bad news on an aluminum decked boat, which this apparently is! LOTS of damage very fast. Rebreathers and aluminum decked boats (and many larger boats are) have an inherent problem if there is a caustic problem or spill. They NEED some place where rebreathers are "safe" to handle on them, where the deck is NOT aluminum and can be flushed down with LOTS of water after use so that sorb "stuff" doesn't end up on the aluminum deck plating. There is really no other solution to this problem because sorb and aluminum = "fizz", and that's very bad. Beyond that however the proper fix is found through fixing the liability problem instead of trying to play "nanny". You'll never succeed with the latter. BTW, does this boat allow solo diving OC? I saw the huge emphasis on buddy diving with gasbags - do they actually allow solo for OC divers, or is that just a matter of "no matter what you must have a buddy"? If the former (OC can dive solo but not rebreathers) then that's a blatent sort of discrimination that nobody should accept. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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15th January 2007, 19:05	#32 (permalink)
Gobfish1 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 396	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips Quote: (Originally Posted by Crazyduck) Yep, we have an insane amount of barriers and limitations. One of our problems is that the boat had an accident and it has made the process worse than normal. So now we have to deal with containment issues for blown scrubber and how to work within their envelope of their acceptable limits. I am sorry if I came off a little harsh but it has been hard work and some people cruise these boards looking for reasons to inhibit the growth process. Not to mention this is one of the few good size boats that makes it out to the gardens. 110 miles off shore, 60 ft floor to the tie in, 80 degree water temp, and lots of incredible life. Hammerheads in the spring, occasional interesting sharks, mantas, lots cool stuff. Now we just need to keep our noses clean and things will be looking good. Andrew Andrew I was out in Singapore last year, 100 miles out, I went diving at 6am Dived a well know battle ship out that way, had the wreck all to my self All 600 foot of it , not a word from the boat skipper , just a cupa tea waiting for me when I finished my 145min dive . just spend your money on the best diving you can get , dont piss it away and get no return for it , it looks like a grate boat hope one day you can get some grate diving off her, stay safe M8 __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3
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15th January 2007, 19:14	#33 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,453	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips Quote: (Originally Posted by Gobfish1) just spend your money on the best diving you can get , dont piss it away and get no return for it , EXACTLY. We have these problems because we keep paying for the service we're offered. If we stop but let people know there's demand out there, we provide incentive for others to fill that demand. Basic economics folks. If you knuckle under, then you get what you bought..... which isn't what you want.... and you don't provide economic incentives for people to sell what you do want to buy, because once your money is spent, its gone! __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
(Offline)

15th January 2007, 19:40	#34 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 718	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips Ladies and Gents, We are dealing with a different type of diver/ animal here. In the UK, you guys are use to cold, dark, and deep. Your charters of divers are hardy and well experienced. Here I have been on the boat with divers that have less than 25 dives and now they are diving in the open ocean. The Gulf is a nasty mistress and the weather changes in a blink of an eye. The boat recommends at least an advanced rating but some people are sloppy and do not have the rigor that I feel they should have. When I lead groups we have meetings about dive profiles, everyone dives nitrox, we stress hydration, ascent rates, and practice going to a pool or lake a blowing a smb. I am an evil mistress…. However, my people have the stuff stowed and know that what is expected. Five dives between 8am and the night dive at 8pm that evening. Then two dives the next day. That’s why they drop the limits of 100ft- they are concerned for the weakest link. As a comparison- I run tons of profiles, analyzed maps of the site, dive with two computers so I can put in a 60 minute dives and surface with a nice slow ascent rate, pull all my safety stops and using a stl 95Cu ft tank. I do all of this work to get the most out of a dive. Meanwhile, other people show up and do the same dive on air with plastic tables. I actually had a teaching session with two ladies on my last outing- asking them about ascent rates and safety stops- they were not doing any… I wanted to strangle someone. G-man – I totally agree with you mate. We are looking into visiting the Cocos Islands and sailing with the Undersea Hunter. Looks like fun! Best Regards, Andrew Karl- I am not ignoring you mate. I agree… __________________ Howdy Senor- What’s Happening! Rob Davie April 2005- Presently in a state of transition from Open Circuit to Closed Circuit. "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by it." - Buddha.
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15th January 2007, 19:44	#35 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,453	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips Oh I hear 'ya on the "you never know what you're going to get" thing. ALL of our local diving here is in the 80-130+ range. There's basically ONE site under 60', and that's 57 to the sand! There are no "little reef dives" around this area... What I've seen on the commercial boats is truly frightening. Thus, I own a boat - that way I get all the cost but I also get all the freedom I want...... __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
(Offline)

15th January 2007, 19:57	#36 (permalink)
Gobfish1 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 396	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips Andrew Your spot on M8, you got to look after the weakest link. That will always dictate what you can, and can not do, Cocos Islands sounds like fun, Hope you like some ripping currents Stay safe and enjoy __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3
(Offline)

15th January 2007, 20:16	#37 (permalink)
nigelh New member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 883	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips Going back to Steve G's comment that started today's flurry it does seem strange how US boats are frightened of rebreathers while here in the UK, as he says, since technical diving has pretty much gone rebreather they are the people the boats are trying to attract. On most of the interesting trips I do these days a twinset is getting to be the oddity (that's the ones where we booked up to dive a named wreck, not just 'going diving'). Serious divers in the UK, the ones that pay a charter rather than diving off the beach, tend, more and more, to dive rebreathers. Even my local club is rethinking it bottle-racks on the RIBs to handle more and more rebreathers year by year. Three of us planned to pay the excess and take the rebreathers on the club Red Sea trip this year and the others who decided not too were suitably annoyed when they checked all our baggage as one lump and we got on free (me with 42Kgs ). The live aboards seem to especially like us but that's probably because they don't have to spend so much time filling tanks. __________________ nigelh
(Offline)

15th January 2007, 21:31	#38 (permalink)
Crazyduck Underwater Mechanic Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS, Dallas/ Ft.Worth Posts: 718	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips While I am far from being a fan of the inspiration system; it has truly seemed to open up certain areas in rebreather diving in England. The rebreather evolution and all the divers, support gear, protocols, added benefits, mix on the fly, all support deep diving, exploration, live aboards, along with travel. That in itself is a splendid track for the evolution of rebreather divers in the UK and the continent. Here in the US, we seem to need certain areas to develop before we can get the ‘super critical mass’ we need to break out into the larger US market place. Either ‘deep wreck’ divers out of back east, ‘cave divers’ out of Florida (US dive Mecca) or other variances such as scientific divers or another special sub-sect. I am hoping with major recreational training agencies going towards technical diving (not that I support that) we will see the next step as rebreather development. Too many dive shops have the mind set of the nineties and that 'devil gas'- with rebreathers but another few years and I am seriously hopeful that things will crack open. After that- the world will open up. However, everyone does make a good point and I am far from disputing that facts on the direct limitations on dive boats. Honestly, if I am 110 miles from shore and I really ‘make a mess out of the dive’- I want that extra time and gas supply that a rebreather will provide me. Great chat guys… Andrew __________________ Howdy Senor- What’s Happening! Rob Davie April 2005- Presently in a state of transition from Open Circuit to Closed Circuit. "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by it." - Buddha.
(Offline)

16th January 2007, 01:38	#39 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 549	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips I think people are too quick to take offence around here. I think it is informative what is and isn't tolerated elsewhere. With regard to this dive charter engaging the captain in dialog, as you seem to be doing is great. The next step is probably to get more people to dive on the boat and not have any accidents....
(Online)

5th February 2008, 20:11	#40 (permalink)
PacketSniffer ~~~~~ #417 ~~~~~ Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 437	Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips Quote: (Originally Posted by fireman) The next step is probably to get more people to dive on the boat and not have any accidents.... 2007 was a accident-free year on the Spree for rebreathers. Although, I'm the one with the overhwhelming majority of the dives. But, I'm crew so I don't count. The reason for this post is to bring attention to new Rebreather divers in the area this rebreather friendly operator. Also, the rebreather policy has been modified this year to allow an increased depth limit of 140fsw on every dive. Remember, this is on sport trips. For those that want few restrictions, that would be the tech trips aboard the Spree where scooters, deep water, and trimix are welcomed. Example: 5 Day Live-Aboard Deep Wreck Trip in June '08 around the Dry Tortugas (which I'll be on ). There is another tech trip in the fall that is being put together for the Gulf of Mexico Brine Seep. Note: I'm not being compensated for this post in any way. Partly, it's my selfish attempt to generate more Rebreather dive buddies for gulf diving. I know you guys are hiding in the Texas foot hills. __________________ Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory or defeat.
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