RMS Lusitania

dodelineur · 1st March 2006, 09:05

Hello list,

For some time now, I have the project of an expedition on the RMS Lusitania.
Does someone on the list know what is the best way, right people to contact, to have all requiered papers to be allowed to dive on the ship?
Each diver would be on CCR (inspi., meg,...) certified, with personnal insurance, and with experience of deep wreck diving (Scotland, North sea, Java sea,...)
Perfect time would be summer 2007 or 2008, depending of the progession of the project.

Could someone give me some tips to make that dream come true ;o)

Or maybe it must stay a dream ;o)

Thanks all

PeteS · 1st March 2006, 10:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by dodelineur)

Hello list,

For some time now, I have the project of an expedition on the RMS Lusitania.
Does someone on the list know what is the best way, right people to contact, to have all requiered papers to be allowed to dive on the ship?
Each diver would be on CCR (inspi., meg,...) certified, with personnal insurance, and with experience of deep wreck diving (Scotland, North sea, Java sea,...)
Perfect time would be summer 2007 or 2008, depending of the progession of the project.

Could someone give me some tips to make that dream come true ;o)

Or maybe it must stay a dream ;o)

Thanks all

Well you'd better be prepared for a long "negotiation" with the "Duchas", who are the Eire equivalent of the UK's National trust, or NZ's Department of Conservation. You will need deeeeeep pockets for that one and a large capacity for bureaucracy. The Duchas are "interesting" to deal with.......

And you'd also better talk to Greg Bemiss, who owns the wreck. Greg is a good guy, but you will need his permission.

Then you'll need to charter a fair sized boat. And find divers that the Duchas is happy with. The boat should be big enough to hold the Duchas observers, as well as all the divers and boat crew.

But if all that works, it's a F*****g big wreck.

If you don't get to go, I have pictures from my dives! We were buzzed by Sunfish on the stops.

Good luck, you'll need it.

CCR-DIVER · 2nd March 2006, 13:19

hi,

please try Alan wrigth (Mv Salutay), or Rich steveson ( deepblue diving); or talk with Leight Bishop.

i´m interested to go.

cheers

José

barney · 3rd March 2006, 00:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS)

The Duchas are "interesting" to deal with.......

That's one HELLUVA understatement...

DUCHAS has a pretty convoluted permit system set up for the wreck. Aside from the paperwork you will need to complete for your permit (which is good for one year only, and for very specific dates), they require two (2) DUCHAS-approved archaeologists and an enforcement agent to be part of the team. You must cover their costs and make room for them on the boat. This is insane, since the wreck is protected and the dive is simply a look-don't-touch dive. There is absolutely no need for two archaeologists taking up boat space. In any case, aside from the DUCHAS hoops to jump thru, you also need to get permission from Gregg Bemis, the owner of the wreck. To get his permission, you forgoe any rights of any still or video images of the wreck that you might take, which Bemis gets. You cannot publish any photos or video of the wreck as well.

To sum it up, the LUSITANIA has probably become the new Mt. Everest of shipwrecks, or, more accurately, the bureacratic paperwork required to dive the wreck is the new Mt. Everest.

Good luck if you wish to pursue an expedition on this wreck -- you'll need it!!

PeteS · 3rd March 2006, 04:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by barney)

To get his permission, you forgoe any rights of any still or video images of the wreck that you might take, which Bemis gets. You cannot publish any photos or video of the wreck as well.

Ooops.......

barney · 3rd March 2006, 05:07

I forgot to add some potentially useful information.

Here is the contact from DUCHAS I corresponded with in 2003-2004:
Ms. Connie Kelleher, Underwater Archaeology Unit: ckelleher@duchas.ie

Here is some guidance from Ms. Kelleher:

Quote:

if you wish to apply to dive the Lusitania the following is the procedure:

Apply to our Dept. for a Licence to Dive
<snip>

The application should be accompanied by a detailed Method Statement. This should include details of your proposed dive aims and objectives, how many and who will be taking part in the diving, how the diving will be undertaken - i.e. mixed gas or decompression/chamber dives and what will be the proposed dive platform. If known you should also include the proposed harbour basedto be used throughout the duration of the proposed dive operation.

A proposed date to undertake the project should be given. This can be general at this stage - i.e. what month is proposed, as we will require specific dates nearer (within a month or two) the project commencement as part of the conditions of the licence, if approved.

The Dive Survey application should be forwarded in the New Year as applications can only be considered for the present year, so too licences cannot be issued retrospectively.

We forward a copy of the application to the owner of the wreck for his approval and to the Safety Section of the Dept. of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, for their approval. If we do not get approval from either one or both, then we will not approve the licence. A copy is also forwarded to the Natinal Museum of Ireland for their comments.

Approval is also dependent on the approval of our Dept. of Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

All licences approved shall be subject to conditions as laid down by the Minister of the Dept. of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

All Dive Survey Licences are for non-invasive diving on a protected wreck site.

and some more...

Quote:

I have forwarded your queries to our Administration Section for review and they will issue an official response to you in regard to you queries. In the meantime I will, as I said before, forward you by post an application for Dive Survey for 2004. It is a requirement that two archaeologists be present throughout the dive operation, and this is funded by you and your team. Provision should be made for this in regard to space on board the proposed vessel and collection and embarkation each day. It may also be required by the Customs and Excise that you report to them regularly at a specific location. However, this is at their sole discretion and would depend on your Dive Expedition proposal and methodology. In regard to costs for the archaeological monitoring, this is assessed on an individual Dive Expedition basis, with duration of proposed project and base location being mitigating factors.

I had several questions on the "conditions" that were never fully answered. It was quite frustrating dealing with them. The provision for two archaeologists is -- to be blunt -- Draconian and downright insane. I queried numerous maritime historians and underwater archaeologists and they all were amazed at this requirement, especially since all dives are non-invasive and any video/stills could be viewed in the comfort of the archaeologist's offices.

Anyway....

As stated before, you need permission and need to sign paperwork from the owner of the vessel, Mr. Gregg Bemis. Mr. Bemis can be contacted at 3876 Old Santa Fe Trail, Sante Fe, New Mexico 87505, USA.

Hope this helps....

***EBT*** · 3rd March 2006, 08:42

So if you're funding their bed and board, I presume they're on prunes for breakfast, Chicken Phal for lunch and finest chilli for dinner. Im thinking I'd also kindly provide them some of that Izal toilet paper

PeteS · 3rd March 2006, 09:00

All this means that you have to book the boat at £xxxx per week, usually the year before, but not know if you can dive the wreck until the month before.

The Duchas cost quoted for one of our proposed trips was Euro6000. This was a rise from the previous years price of Euro1420.

Of course there's always plan B. Not that I would recommend this approach, but....

Find out the location of the Irish Navy vessels capable of policing the area. When thay are more than four hours away, wizz over in a rib, do the dive, and come back. The wreck is actually 12.25 miles off the Irish coast. The limit is 12. This only works if you don't have a deco incident.

This approach could, however, result in a small international incident, and a long conversation with Immigration, Customs, etc.......

The Duchas approach is to protect the wreck. You should realise however, that during the 1950's the Royal Navy used to use it for depth charge practice. Allegedly. Anyway, for a ship that sank by having a hole in it, there's a lot of bent metal on top.

1st March 2006, 09:05	#1 (permalink)
dodelineur New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium (Liège) Posts: 96	RMS Lusitania Hello list, For some time now, I have the project of an expedition on the RMS Lusitania. Does someone on the list know what is the best way, right people to contact, to have all requiered papers to be allowed to dive on the ship? Each diver would be on CCR (inspi., meg,...) certified, with personnal insurance, and with experience of deep wreck diving (Scotland, North sea, Java sea,...) Perfect time would be summer 2007 or 2008, depending of the progession of the project. Could someone give me some tips to make that dream come true ;o) Or maybe it must stay a dream ;o) Thanks all
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1st March 2006, 10:52	#2 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 543	Re: RMS Lusitania Quote: (Originally Posted by dodelineur) Hello list, For some time now, I have the project of an expedition on the RMS Lusitania. Does someone on the list know what is the best way, right people to contact, to have all requiered papers to be allowed to dive on the ship? Each diver would be on CCR (inspi., meg,...) certified, with personnal insurance, and with experience of deep wreck diving (Scotland, North sea, Java sea,...) Perfect time would be summer 2007 or 2008, depending of the progession of the project. Could someone give me some tips to make that dream come true ;o) Or maybe it must stay a dream ;o) Thanks all Well you'd better be prepared for a long "negotiation" with the "Duchas", who are the Eire equivalent of the UK's National trust, or NZ's Department of Conservation. You will need deeeeeep pockets for that one and a large capacity for bureaucracy. The Duchas are "interesting" to deal with....... And you'd also better talk to Greg Bemiss, who owns the wreck. Greg is a good guy, but you will need his permission. Then you'll need to charter a fair sized boat. And find divers that the Duchas is happy with. The boat should be big enough to hold the Duchas observers, as well as all the divers and boat crew. But if all that works, it's a F****g big wreck. If you don't get to go, I have pictures from my dives! We were buzzed by Sunfish on the stops. Good luck, you'll need it. __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud Last edited by PeteS : 1st March 2006 at 10:55.*
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2nd March 2006, 13:19	#3 (permalink)
CCR-DIVER New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Portugal Posts: 71	Re: RMS Lusitania hi, please try Alan wrigth (Mv Salutay), or Rich steveson ( deepblue diving); or talk with Leight Bishop. i´m interested to go. cheers José __________________ *José Marques* *www.in-silence.com*
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3rd March 2006, 00:25	#4 (permalink)
barney EXPLORER Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 294	Re: RMS Lusitania Quote: (Originally Posted by PeteS) The Duchas are "interesting" to deal with....... That's one HELLUVA understatement... DUCHAS has a pretty convoluted permit system set up for the wreck. Aside from the paperwork you will need to complete for your permit (which is good for one year only, and for very specific dates), they require two (2) DUCHAS-approved archaeologists and an enforcement agent to be part of the team. You must cover their costs and make room for them on the boat. This is insane, since the wreck is protected and the dive is simply a look-don't-touch dive. There is absolutely no need for two archaeologists taking up boat space. In any case, aside from the DUCHAS hoops to jump thru, you also need to get permission from Gregg Bemis, the owner of the wreck. To get his permission, you forgoe any rights of any still or video images of the wreck that you might take, which Bemis gets. You cannot publish any photos or video of the wreck as well. To sum it up, the LUSITANIA has probably become the new Mt. Everest of shipwrecks, or, more accurately, the bureacratic paperwork required to dive the wreck is the new Mt. Everest. Good luck if you wish to pursue an expedition on this wreck -- you'll need it!! __________________ Michael C. Barnette ASSOCIATION OF UNDERWATER EXPLORERS
(Offline)

3rd March 2006, 04:18	#5 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 543	Re: RMS Lusitania Quote: (Originally Posted by barney) To get his permission, you forgoe any rights of any still or video images of the wreck that you might take, which Bemis gets. You cannot publish any photos or video of the wreck as well. Ooops....... __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
(Offline)

3rd March 2006, 05:07	#6 (permalink)
barney EXPLORER Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 294	Re: RMS Lusitania I forgot to add some potentially useful information. Here is the contact from DUCHAS I corresponded with in 2003-2004: Ms. Connie Kelleher, Underwater Archaeology Unit: ckelleher@duchas.ie Here is some guidance from Ms. Kelleher: Quote: if you wish to apply to dive the Lusitania the following is the procedure: Apply to our Dept. for a Licence to Dive <snip> The application should be accompanied by a detailed Method Statement. This should include details of your proposed dive aims and objectives, how many and who will be taking part in the diving, how the diving will be undertaken - i.e. mixed gas or decompression/chamber dives and what will be the proposed dive platform. If known you should also include the proposed harbour basedto be used throughout the duration of the proposed dive operation. A proposed date to undertake the project should be given. This can be general at this stage - i.e. what month is proposed, as we will require specific dates nearer (within a month or two) the project commencement as part of the conditions of the licence, if approved. The Dive Survey application should be forwarded in the New Year as applications can only be considered for the present year, so too licences cannot be issued retrospectively. We forward a copy of the application to the owner of the wreck for his approval and to the Safety Section of the Dept. of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, for their approval. If we do not get approval from either one or both, then we will not approve the licence. A copy is also forwarded to the Natinal Museum of Ireland for their comments. Approval is also dependent on the approval of our Dept. of Environment, Heritage and Local Government. All licences approved shall be subject to conditions as laid down by the Minister of the Dept. of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. All Dive Survey Licences are for non-invasive diving on a protected wreck site. and some more... Quote: I have forwarded your queries to our Administration Section for review and they will issue an official response to you in regard to you queries. In the meantime I will, as I said before, forward you by post an application for Dive Survey for 2004. It is a requirement that two archaeologists be present throughout the dive operation, and this is funded by you and your team. Provision should be made for this in regard to space on board the proposed vessel and collection and embarkation each day. It may also be required by the Customs and Excise that you report to them regularly at a specific location. However, this is at their sole discretion and would depend on your Dive Expedition proposal and methodology. In regard to costs for the archaeological monitoring, this is assessed on an individual Dive Expedition basis, with duration of proposed project and base location being mitigating factors. I had several questions on the "conditions" that were never fully answered. It was quite frustrating dealing with them. The provision for two archaeologists is -- to be blunt -- Draconian and downright insane. I queried numerous maritime historians and underwater archaeologists and they all were amazed at this requirement, especially since all dives are non-invasive and any video/stills could be viewed in the comfort of the archaeologist's offices. Anyway.... As stated before, you need permission and need to sign paperwork from the owner of the vessel, Mr. Gregg Bemis. Mr. Bemis can be contacted at 3876 Old Santa Fe Trail, Sante Fe, New Mexico 87505, USA. Hope this helps.... __________________ Michael C. Barnette ASSOCIATION OF UNDERWATER EXPLORERS
(Offline)

3rd March 2006, 08:42	#7 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,105	Re: RMS Lusitania So if you're funding their bed and board, I presume they're on prunes for breakfast, Chicken Phal for lunch and finest chilli for dinner. Im thinking I'd also kindly provide them some of that Izal toilet paper __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
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3rd March 2006, 09:00	#8 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 543	Re: RMS Lusitania All this means that you have to book the boat at £xxxx per week, usually the year before, but not know if you can dive the wreck until the month before. The Duchas cost quoted for one of our proposed trips was Euro6000. This was a rise from the previous years price of Euro1420. Of course there's always plan B. Not that I would recommend this approach, but.... Find out the location of the Irish Navy vessels capable of policing the area. When thay are more than four hours away, wizz over in a rib, do the dive, and come back. The wreck is actually 12.25 miles off the Irish coast. The limit is 12. This only works if you don't have a deco incident. This approach could, however, result in a small international incident, and a long conversation with Immigration, Customs, etc....... The Duchas approach is to protect the wreck. You should realise however, that during the 1950's the Royal Navy used to use it for depth charge practice. Allegedly. Anyway, for a ship that sank by having a hole in it, there's a lot of bent metal on top. __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud Last edited by PeteS : 3rd March 2006 at 09:15. Reason: Get the price right!
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