Rebreather training question

jepuskar

I would like to hear how the training drills/exercises are performed during training. I'm thinking the instructor is going to be right there to monitor and ensure you arent going to do something harmful like doing an O2 flush at 60ft or something like that.

As an instructor for open water we give briefings and debriefings on the skills etc...while I expect the same for CCR training, does CCR training lend itself to more surprise drills as opposed to knowing everything that is going to be thrown at you during a dive? Reading some training requirements from one of the agencies, it just lists the skills necessary to pass...it doesnt mention anything about impromptu drills...so I suppose it's up to the instructor.

Thanks,

Jason

wedivebc

We did 4 hrs in the pool before I got to the ocean. The core skills were repeated over and over until they were ingrained in my reflexes. We had buddy phone earpieces so the instructor could stand poolside and call out drills that we were to perform. There was also a CCR equipped DM in the water with us. All ocean skill were announced in so far as in "during this dive we will..."
There was no mask snatching, valves shut off or anything like that which we subject OC tech divers to

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Cheers,

Dave....

Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die

decoweenie

That'd depend on the instructors and the comfort level of the students.

AFAIK, there is no written standards in any training agency requiring to do so. I believe GUE instructors aren't even allowed to shut down the student valves any longer (?).

However, I was trained years ago with Errol Kalayci and Joe Dituri on what I would consider foundation tech/Rebreather courses. And Errol was teaching a pure "brutality", full-contact course... and I loved it !

That set the tone for me, and I try to pass similar mindset in my courses except the intensity varies and depends solely on how the students are reacting.

Of course, no unannounced "failures" are done until the students have done the skills lots of time and in perfect efficiency. It is easy to recognize those who are calm and those who panic at the first incident.

In real life, failures do not announce themselves and give you warning. If you don't train for real-life failures to keep your skills sharp and your emotion in check, you won't know how you will react when it happens.

However, if the students do not wish to face unannounced failures, then the instructors just follow the course standards.

__________________
"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

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nigelh

Mod 1. Brief. Dive. Drills done in the order of the brief.

Mod 2. First few dives learning skills.
Last few dives. Flashcard faults - often compound faults.

(edit)It wasn't on a rebreather course but the most significant flashcard I ever got came when my buddy was shown a card and went into fault recovery mode and started to signal to me and I got the 'DO NOT HELP' card. I'm glad I knew he had that one before it was my turn to be 'on my own'.(/edit)

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nigelh

silent running

Jason, very good post/question. But I think that most insructors will try to avoid stressing you majorly in Mod 1. Whether that's good or not, I don't know. I got plenty stressed out by a couple of SCR emergencies I had, long before my CCR class.

I will say that it is worth finding out whether any instructor you're considering has flunked aybody. They almost certainly should have, not everybody is cut out for CCR. It would be a good indication that they're not just interested in passing people to get their fee. I found out that my Mod 1 instructor flunked a few in the year before my class and returned their money, of course. So I had some reason to believe he wasn't just trying to make a car payment when I got my cert... -Andy

decoweenie

It is a good point, but if the logistic allows pre-screening, I don't think it is an universal rule IMHO.

If the instructor has done adequate screening, he wouldn't have to flunk anyone unless something drastically was discovered that screening (i.e. knowing dive history and/or a simple competency dive with the prospective student) didn't reveal.

__________________
"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

- Rebreather World PM

caveseeker7

The way we did it included a briefing, dive planning, the dive, and a thorough critique afterwards. Theory and pool work, then open water dives. Everything except shooting the lift bag was done in the pool first, then later repeated multiple times during the OW dives. Skills in sets of three times per student after the instructor demonstrated it first. If something didn't work out, we moved on to the next skill and went back to the missed one a bit later. Good teaching I think as it keeps the frustration level fairly low and gets everything done.

Once we got the hang of what to do Alan moved on to when to do it. Lots of work with cue cards. Alan also watched pO2s with an eagles eye, still not sure how he did it. And yes, he did shut valves off. The O2 first in the class room and again in the pool to give us an idea how long it takes to deplete the gas in the hose, later during the dive both valves repeatedly. Didn't catch him doing it once, though did pretty well noticing that something was wrong and fixing it. Keeps you on your toes, and as long as the instructor stays on top of his students I find it a good idea.

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Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

Decodiver

I build my students' skill base gradually.

Repetition of skills shows a maintained ability to perform and weeds out the lucky from the proficient.

Then as the course progresses the skills become more complicated and necessitate prioritising as well as performance.

I hit my students with surprise drills in environments I can control, as Phi says it is important to assess comfort and proficiency, I have seen well performing students undermined and lose confidence when complicated drills were used too early.

However, it is a recognised method to use complicated problem solving as a means to assess a candidate's proficiency.

Unfortunately however all the screening in the world cannot protect an instructor from a student who is not suitable, either mentally or physically, for CCR diving.

I have failed students and will continue to do so for those who do not meet the required standards set by the agency and myself.

After all their cert card carries my name, so I have a non-negotiable duty of care to them.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

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CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer
CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on
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www.zerogravitydiving.com

Rebreather World Terms & Conditions

silent running

Yes Phi, pre-screening is great, but how does one make it really effective? IIRC one student couldn't get through the classroom stuff/theory and the other was nixed after spending a lot of pool time trying to get comfortable and couldn't. I guess some people seem confident enough when they first talk with the instructor. It seems like especialy for long time OC divers, getting comfortable takes time. It's got to be a whole lot of no fun trying to teach CCR to a guy who's been diving OC for 20+years to start over again. Those people may seem plenty motivated until it really sinks in during pool time how different the skill sets are and how they will have to climb the Mod ladder from the bottom all over again.

I felt very glad I'd I read a lot about CCR and spent a lot of time on SCR before taking my CCR Mod 1. And it still took a good amount of time for the theory stuff to sink in, beyond simply repeating back the right answers to the instructor during discussion-hear me now, undestand me later. Mod 2 was an even bigger overload, tons of theory, lots of math, new equipment to adapt to, fast drills in the water and finally the dives. Felt like I got hit by a truck by the end of the week, but in a good way...

jepuskar

Hey Andy,

I often think about whether or not I'm cut out for CCR diving. That is why I am a seeker now. I want to gather the basics and specifics involved with this venture. I've read the Evolution manual cover to cover, and have the TDI training manual for it coming tomorrow. This is how I will draw my conclusions on whether or not to pursue this more...ofcourse a pool session is in order.

There is a link on APD's website that takes you to a web page written by Richard Pyle...here it is:

http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research...tz97/lgrb.html

Towards the bottom of this article is a section names Lessons Learned. It is commendable that he shares these stories with us and there are lessons to be learned, but I was surprised at some of the obvious human errors. From someone in my position this was helpful to read.

J