Are you having problems with TDI cert. ??

Genesis · 7th February 2006, 12:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

Exactly! Whilst I'll agree that online dive-check type services are great, theres an invention called the telephone that seems to be accepted reasonably worldwide.....

You're assuming that someone can and will answer that phone 24x7 (remember, this is a worldwide thing - while time is dependant on where you are.)

This is not true - at least not for some agenices. Indeed, personal experience again suggests that some agencies may have "the people who can do that" absent for a period of days! Not good if it happens when you need the support.

shell-back · 7th February 2006, 17:46

Quote:

See, the class in question was dual-cert with another agency and I have the other card. The requirements for certification from both agencies are, for all intents and purposes, identical.

what you have once again is a problem with the instructor not the agency. No way is it possible to multi cert as the requirements and standards are not the same. It a question of ethics and standard violations on behalf of the instructor

Quote:

It is silly to pay for a card until you know you earned it, yes?

NO, but it shows that you that you may have missed the core of knowledge essential for safe and enjoyable divng that would have been identified in a standardized course.

the risk of liability in dual-cert for a instructor is not worth the $25 and in the event of a lawsuit the actions of said instructor could not be defended unless proven that the standarized program was followed for each cert.

and instructors wonder why the insurance is so expensive.

Billy Beal
SDI/TDI IT 3507

***EBT*** · 7th February 2006, 21:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by shell-back)

what you have once again is a problem with the instructor not the agency. No way is it possible to multi cert as the requirements and standards are not the same. It a question of ethics and standard violations on behalf of the instructor

Can you perhaps explain this one? How about if the instructor teaches to the more strenuous requirement? Wheres the issue?

/Z

shell-back · 8th February 2006, 00:26

I think I can help you out , but just to be clear what is your definition of "strenuous requirement".

Genesis · 8th February 2006, 01:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by shell-back)

what you have once again is a problem with the instructor not the agency. No way is it possible to multi cert as the requirements and standards are not the same. It a question of ethics and standard violations on behalf of the instructor

NO, but it shows that you that you may have missed the core of knowledge essential for safe and enjoyable divng that would have been identified in a standardized course.

I doubt it. Having seen the requirements under standards for both, there is no material difference between them.

Quote:

the risk of liability in dual-cert for a instructor is not worth the $25 and in the event of a lawsuit the actions of said instructor could not be defended unless proven that the standarized program was followed for each cert.

and instructors wonder why the insurance is so expensive.

Billy Beal
SDI/TDI IT 3507

BTW, FWIW I did not request the dual cert; it was offered and I accepted.

If an agency has a problem with this they are of course free to insist that instructors not offer that sort of thing.

Genesis · 15th February 2006, 23:33

An update - Brian Carney has tracked down the errant paperwork and he states that the card in question is on the way (dispatched today) - so FWIW, he made good on his word.....

***caveseeker7*** · 16th February 2006, 01:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

... so FWIW, he made good on his word.....

I'd say a lot, a man is only as good as his word.

Genesis · 16th February 2006, 01:32

No argument there....

I did feel that I owed the forum an update on the resolution since I both promised one and brought the issue here originally - and also since there were some who had intimated that I had "bought a card" instead of actually meeting the requirements....

7th February 2006, 12:26	#31 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,396	Re: Are you having problems with TDI cert. ?? Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) Exactly! Whilst I'll agree that online dive-check type services are great, theres an invention called the telephone that seems to be accepted reasonably worldwide..... You're assuming that someone can and will answer that phone 24x7 (remember, this is a worldwide thing - while time is dependant on where you are.) This is not true - at least not for some agenices. Indeed, personal experience again suggests that some agencies may have "the people who can do that" absent for a period of days! Not good if it happens when you need the support. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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7th February 2006, 17:46	#32 (permalink)
shell-back I do all my own stunts Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: middle of US Posts: 481	Re: Are you having problems with TDI cert. ?? Quote: See, the class in question was dual-cert with another agency and I have the other card. The requirements for certification from both agencies are, for all intents and purposes, identical. what you have once again is a problem with the instructor not the agency. No way is it possible to multi cert as the requirements and standards are not the same. It a question of ethics and standard violations on behalf of the instructor Quote: It is silly to pay for a card until you know you earned it, yes? NO, but it shows that you that you may have missed the core of knowledge essential for safe and enjoyable divng that would have been identified in a standardized course. the risk of liability in dual-cert for a instructor is not worth the $25 and in the event of a lawsuit the actions of said instructor could not be defended unless proven that the standarized program was followed for each cert. and instructors wonder why the insurance is so expensive. Billy Beal SDI/TDI IT 3507 Last edited by shell-back : 7th February 2006 at 20:00.
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7th February 2006, 21:22	#33 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,995	Re: Are you having problems with TDI cert. ?? Quote: (Originally Posted by shell-back) what you have once again is a problem with the instructor not the agency. No way is it possible to multi cert as the requirements and standards are not the same. It a question of ethics and standard violations on behalf of the instructor Can you perhaps explain this one? How about if the instructor teaches to the more strenuous requirement? Wheres the issue? /Z __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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8th February 2006, 00:26	#34 (permalink)
shell-back I do all my own stunts Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: middle of US Posts: 481	Re: Are you having problems with TDI cert. ?? I think I can help you out , but just to be clear what is your definition of "strenuous requirement".
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8th February 2006, 01:56	#35 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,396	Re: Are you having problems with TDI cert. ?? Quote: (Originally Posted by shell-back) what you have once again is a problem with the instructor not the agency. No way is it possible to multi cert as the requirements and standards are not the same. It a question of ethics and standard violations on behalf of the instructor NO, but it shows that you that you may have missed the core of knowledge essential for safe and enjoyable divng that would have been identified in a standardized course. I doubt it. Having seen the requirements under standards for both, there is no material difference between them. Quote: the risk of liability in dual-cert for a instructor is not worth the $25 and in the event of a lawsuit the actions of said instructor could not be defended unless proven that the standarized program was followed for each cert. and instructors wonder why the insurance is so expensive. Billy Beal SDI/TDI IT 3507 BTW, FWIW I did not request the dual cert; it was offered and I accepted. If an agency has a problem with this they are of course free to insist that instructors not offer that sort of thing. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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15th February 2006, 23:33	#36 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,396	Re: Are you having problems with TDI cert. ?? An update - Brian Carney has tracked down the errant paperwork and he states that the card in question is on the way (dispatched today) - so FWIW, he made good on his word..... __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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16th February 2006, 01:27	#37 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,496	Re: Are you having problems with TDI cert. ?? Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) ... so FWIW, he made good on his word..... I'd say a lot, a man is only as good as his word. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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16th February 2006, 01:32	#38 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,396	Re: Are you having problems with TDI cert. ?? No argument there.... I did feel that I owed the forum an update on the resolution since I both promised one and brought the issue here originally - and also since there were some who had intimated that I had "bought a card" instead of actually meeting the requirements.... __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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