Open circuit at first sign of trouble?

Mdemon · 8th April 2005, 15:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M)

MOD 1 -can- cover open loop, but obviously that depends who your instructor is... Is there a prescriptive list of skills issued by each of the agencies on exactly what should be covered during a course? I've never seen one. The manuals are crap and have no mention of anything other than very basic techniques in them.

You can find quite detailed course contents and even lesson plan files for most agencies on the web. I have the TDI ones somewhere amongst others.

As you've pointed out though, even the manuals don't list the skills and drills which I think is appalling. I had to write mine out on a scrap of paper during the lessons! I think this is because a) this encourages you to do a course rather than learn them off the web and b) stops you just passing round the manuals. Understandable, but a bit frustrating...

Ken · 8th April 2005, 15:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I would think that Gordon and Leon might be using the same breathing hose source.

If that's correct, then a KISS DSV fitted with the new Jetsam QD should fit just fine, if Stuart wanted it...

That's what I was thinking. As nice as the Meg DSV is, it would certainly be nicer with the KISS mouthpiece. I'm thinking of getting a Meg sometime soon and having this mod. built in would be a nice feature.

***schford*** · 8th April 2005, 15:44

Gents - I think you are missing my point - I agree totally that going to O/C is a crap idea - the point I was making that going Open Loop is what should be taught.

I was also theorising that with a CO2 hit going Open Loop might be easier than using the OC/CC DSV as doing that requires some fine motor skills.

Quote:

He described how his CO2 hit rendered him unable to move - so bailout to OC or OC/DSV was impossible.

Open Loop on the meg is simply cross arms and pull to chest.

I discussed this with Leon who was of the opinion that it would be a waste of time and money putting an OC/CC DSV on the Meg as it is so easy and simple to go open loop and with out requiring any fine motor skills what so ever, then if you need to you bail out - which lets be honest you would do on the Kiss as well as you might be on O/C but the tiny cylinders we carry are not goign to get us any where at depth.

However I am sure they would do it if you paid the money!

Stuart

***schford*** · 8th April 2005, 15:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Stuart,

If you are really worrying about fine motor skill concerning rotating a switch, what is easier than simply breath the loop content out of your nose and let the ADV make up the gas instead of squeezing your CL/etc. ?

Good point Phi,

I bellieve there was a reason for crushing lungs and purge - I have to be honest I can't remember it

It might have been that crushing lungs and hitting ADV gives you instant (or near enough instant) clean loop. Where as even with minimum CL volume its going to take at least a couple of breaths - gas in hoses, scurbber can, head, scrubber itself etc as you always have more than one lungful volume of gas in the system.

Stuart

Ps great discussion this.

Mdemon · 8th April 2005, 16:12

The crushing of the CLs is as you say, to purge the loop of the current gas. A couple more breaths out of the nose and you get enough negative pressure to fire the ADV when you breath in.

We were taught to do the same going onto SCR too...

And yes, great thread!

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Good point Phi,

I bellieve there was a reason for crushing lungs and purge - I have to be honest I can't remember it

It might have been that crushing lungs and hitting ADV gives you instant (or near enough instant) clean loop. Where as even with minimum CL volume its going to take at least a couple of breaths - gas in hoses, scurbber can, head, scrubber itself etc as you always have more than one lungful volume of gas in the system.

Stuart

Ps great discussion this.

Ken · 8th April 2005, 16:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Gents - I think you are missing my point - I agree totally that going to O/C is a crap idea - the point I was making that going Open Loop is what should be taught.

I was also theorising that with a CO2 hit going Open Loop might be easier than using the OC/CC DSV as doing that requires some fine motor skills.

Open Loop on the meg is simply cross arms and pull to chest.

I discussed this with Leon who was of the opinion that it would be a waste of time and money putting an OC/CC DSV on the Meg as it is so easy and simple to go open loop and with out requiring any fine motor skills what so ever, then if you need to you bail out - which lets be honest you would do on the Kiss as well as you might be on O/C but the tiny cylinders we carry are not goign to get us any where at depth.

However I am sure they would do it if you paid the money!

Stuart

I see your point. With the KISS you certainly can't cross your arms and get the ADV to fire. Hence, it's easier on the KISS to turn the switch. The old Inspo. without the ADV required a crossing of arms, pulling the dump while simultaneously hitting the dil. button. Uggh. That or do the nose blow and hit the dil. I think this subject might be a good topic to include in Rebreather Vol. II?

ROB DAVIE · 8th April 2005, 16:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ken)

I see your point. With the KISS you certainly can't cross your arms and get the ADV to fire. Hence, it's easier on the KISS to turn the switch. The old Inspo. without the ADV required a crossing of arms, pulling the dump while simultaneously hitting the dil. button. Uggh. That or do the nose blow and hit the dil. I think this subject might be a good topic to include in Rebreather Vol. II?

Ken,

You make a good point here. My BBOD (ex-YBOD) never had the ADV fitted. (Still doesn't.) But on my Widolf DR-600 and on my standard mouthpiece, I have fitted the Divematics DSV. When I want a breath of fresh air, it is just one quick click away! No hugging, squeezing, pressing, playing the accordion, or foolin' around. Just click and breathe.

Cheers!

Rob Davie

Ken · 8th April 2005, 16:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by ROB DAVIE)

Ken,

You make a good point here. My BBOD (ex-YBOD) never had the ADV fitted. (Still doesn't.) But on my Widolf DR-600 and on my standard mouthpiece, I have fitted the Divematics DSV. When I want a breath of fresh air, it is just one quick click away! No hugging, squeezing, pressing, playing the accordion, or foolin' around. Just click and breathe.

Cheers!

Rob Davie

Geeez Rob you have a Widolf! Way too cool! Nothing like having the Cadillac of all moutpieces.

p.s. how do I get some of those green thingys?

***schford*** · 8th April 2005, 17:07

i refer the honourable gentlman to here

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/t441-...lks-about.html

Stuart

Ps I liked your comments so you had a green blob from me!

**trob09** · 8th April 2005, 17:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ken)

p.s. how do I get some of those green thingys?

Ken, I tried to green-blob you, but my meager standing in the RBW community only goes part-way to a blob...

Tim

Addited - Hey! squeaky wheel I guess...

8th April 2005, 15:04	#21 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,946	Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M) MOD 1 -can- cover open loop, but obviously that depends who your instructor is... Is there a prescriptive list of skills issued by each of the agencies on exactly what should be covered during a course? I've never seen one. The manuals are crap and have no mention of anything other than very basic techniques in them. You can find quite detailed course contents and even lesson plan files for most agencies on the web. I have the TDI ones somewhere amongst others. As you've pointed out though, even the manuals don't list the skills and drills which I think is appalling. I had to write mine out on a scrap of paper during the lessons! I think this is because a) this encourages you to do a course rather than learn them off the web and b) stops you just passing round the manuals. Understandable, but a bit frustrating... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

8th April 2005, 15:08	#22 (permalink)
Ken Team Torrent Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 331	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I would think that Gordon and Leon might be using the same breathing hose source. If that's correct, then a KISS DSV fitted with the new Jetsam QD should fit just fine, if Stuart wanted it... That's what I was thinking. As nice as the Meg DSV is, it would certainly be nicer with the KISS mouthpiece. I'm thinking of getting a Meg sometime soon and having this mod. built in would be a nice feature.
(Offline)

8th April 2005, 15:44	#23 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Gents - I think you are missing my point - I agree totally that going to O/C is a crap idea - the point I was making that going Open Loop is what should be taught. I was also theorising that with a CO2 hit going Open Loop might be easier than using the OC/CC DSV as doing that requires some fine motor skills. Quote: He described how his CO2 hit rendered him unable to move - so bailout to OC or OC/DSV was impossible. Open Loop on the meg is simply cross arms and pull to chest. I discussed this with Leon who was of the opinion that it would be a waste of time and money putting an OC/CC DSV on the Meg as it is so easy and simple to go open loop and with out requiring any fine motor skills what so ever, then if you need to you bail out - which lets be honest you would do on the Kiss as well as you might be on O/C but the tiny cylinders we carry are not goign to get us any where at depth. However I am sure they would do it if you paid the money! Stuart
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8th April 2005, 15:53	#24 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Stuart, If you are really worrying about fine motor skill concerning rotating a switch, what is easier than simply breath the loop content out of your nose and let the ADV make up the gas instead of squeezing your CL/etc. ? Good point Phi, I bellieve there was a reason for crushing lungs and purge - I have to be honest I can't remember it It might have been that crushing lungs and hitting ADV gives you instant (or near enough instant) clean loop. Where as even with minimum CL volume its going to take at least a couple of breaths - gas in hoses, scurbber can, head, scrubber itself etc as you always have more than one lungful volume of gas in the system. Stuart Ps great discussion this.
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8th April 2005, 16:12	#25 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,946	The crushing of the CLs is as you say, to purge the loop of the current gas. A couple more breaths out of the nose and you get enough negative pressure to fire the ADV when you breath in. We were taught to do the same going onto SCR too... And yes, great thread! Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Good point Phi, I bellieve there was a reason for crushing lungs and purge - I have to be honest I can't remember it It might have been that crushing lungs and hitting ADV gives you instant (or near enough instant) clean loop. Where as even with minimum CL volume its going to take at least a couple of breaths - gas in hoses, scurbber can, head, scrubber itself etc as you always have more than one lungful volume of gas in the system. Stuart Ps great discussion this. __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
(Offline)

8th April 2005, 16:24	#26 (permalink)
Ken Team Torrent Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 331	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Gents - I think you are missing my point - I agree totally that going to O/C is a crap idea - the point I was making that going Open Loop is what should be taught. I was also theorising that with a CO2 hit going Open Loop might be easier than using the OC/CC DSV as doing that requires some fine motor skills. Open Loop on the meg is simply cross arms and pull to chest. I discussed this with Leon who was of the opinion that it would be a waste of time and money putting an OC/CC DSV on the Meg as it is so easy and simple to go open loop and with out requiring any fine motor skills what so ever, then if you need to you bail out - which lets be honest you would do on the Kiss as well as you might be on O/C but the tiny cylinders we carry are not goign to get us any where at depth. However I am sure they would do it if you paid the money! Stuart I see your point. With the KISS you certainly can't cross your arms and get the ADV to fire. Hence, it's easier on the KISS to turn the switch. The old Inspo. without the ADV required a crossing of arms, pulling the dump while simultaneously hitting the dil. button. Uggh. That or do the nose blow and hit the dil. I think this subject might be a good topic to include in Rebreather Vol. II?
(Offline)

8th April 2005, 16:40	#27 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	The easy way...... Quote: (Originally Posted by Ken) I see your point. With the KISS you certainly can't cross your arms and get the ADV to fire. Hence, it's easier on the KISS to turn the switch. The old Inspo. without the ADV required a crossing of arms, pulling the dump while simultaneously hitting the dil. button. Uggh. That or do the nose blow and hit the dil. I think this subject might be a good topic to include in Rebreather Vol. II? Ken, You make a good point here. My BBOD (ex-YBOD) never had the ADV fitted. (Still doesn't.) But on my Widolf DR-600 and on my standard mouthpiece, I have fitted the Divematics DSV. When I want a breath of fresh air, it is just one quick click away! No hugging, squeezing, pressing, playing the accordion, or foolin' around. Just click and breathe. Cheers! Rob Davie __________________ "CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving WHEN PIGS FLY!!"--GI3
(Offline)

8th April 2005, 16:50	#28 (permalink)
Ken Team Torrent Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 331	Quote: (Originally Posted by ROB DAVIE) Ken, You make a good point here. My BBOD (ex-YBOD) never had the ADV fitted. (Still doesn't.) But on my Widolf DR-600 and on my standard mouthpiece, I have fitted the Divematics DSV. When I want a breath of fresh air, it is just one quick click away! No hugging, squeezing, pressing, playing the accordion, or foolin' around. Just click and breathe. Cheers! Rob Davie Geeez Rob you have a Widolf! Way too cool! Nothing like having the Cadillac of all moutpieces. p.s. how do I get some of those green thingys?
(Offline)

8th April 2005, 17:07	#29 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	i refer the honourable gentlman to here http://www.rebreatherworld.com/t441-...lks-about.html Stuart Ps I liked your comments so you had a green blob from me!
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8th April 2005, 17:12	#30 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 701	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ken) p.s. how do I get some of those green thingys? Ken, I tried to green-blob you, but my meager standing in the RBW community only goes part-way to a blob... Tim Addited - Hey! squeaky wheel I guess...
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