No training available, what do I do now?

Simon A

Ok here goes the story. I have a home built rebreather and obviously I cant get training on it! The unit is Inspiration lungs with a draeger DSV, an EDO4 scrubber and a KISS valve. I'm quite happy that I know my way round the 'breather, but what's the best way to gain the skills?
I have dived it and know it works, currently to a max depth of 7.5m (thanks Stuart) and I now need to get some more time on it, nail the comedy bouyancy aspect and then work it up to about 40m.
I'm confident that I can dive the unit without killing myself, but I feel that I'd nail the bouyancy and drills aspect of it faster/more reliably if I could get some (formal or informal) training and feedback.
The question is what path to take? It would be fairly easy to borrow an Inspiration or a KISS and do a course. Is this a good idea? or am I better off finding a friendly KISS and Inspiration qualified instructor and taking an extended skills development session informaly?
Should I just find an "experienced" rebreather diver who will "mentor" me? (if so how do I measure/define how much "experience" is required?) or do I just go ahead and teach myself? (This could be a long process). Or is there a mixture of the lot that may suit me better?

Hoping for help
Simon A

cameron

sticky...
If I was in your position... I think I would borrow the KISS and do the whole course...It will give you a fair understanding of what to expect as a rebreather diver and as a KISS diver.

abowie

What he said.

If you learn to use a KISS Rebreather properly it can only stand you in good stead.

__________________
Andrew Bowie

Rebreather-friendly Buddy

caveseeker7

Same recomendation here. I think the most important part are the in and outs of the gas delivery system. So if yours uses a KISS valve, get KISS training.

Much of the other stuff is the same, anyway. Basic theory, insuring there is no loose sorb in the cannister, pressure check, pre-breathing. That sort of thing.

Take some time to make up a complete pre- and post dive checklist that suits your particular unit. Like the ones in the back of Bozanic's book. Talk with people who use and/or get manuals for the bits you used to insure that you cover them as needed.

__________________
Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

Sutty

I'd definitely recommend Kiss training too - that's how you'll be running the unit anyway and you'll probably learn something you wouldn't automatically think of for yourself (if you have a good instructor). Your skills will be improved so you'll have more brain-cells you can focus on the homebuild, as buoyancy etc will be easier.
Can't see as much benefit to training on an ECCR.
I'm pretty new at this myself though...

lizardland

There are generic Rebreather courses out there aimed at homebuilders who get grief from shops for not having a crappy bit of laminated paper with an unflattering picture on it. I did my generic course [searching for card...] in 1995, it was a waste of money then and I'll be surprised if it is any different now. My own view is that if you don't know what you are doing then stay the hell away from homebuilding. I'll make the assumption that anyone who has built and tested their own rebreather knows how to dive it, they just need to convince themselves they know how to dive it.

Someone suggest training in using a KISS valve? Give me a break, it's an orifice with a bypass button, a monkey could use one. Read display, think about it for fraction of second, either do nothing, press O2 valve or fire ADV/dil button.

I'd hope that you are well versed in rebreather physics, most homebuilders seem to be, often better than commercial Rebreather users. So that's a bit of the course you don't need. Assembly and maintenance... well who is going to teach you that better than yourself? KISS valve use? See above. So that really just leaves skills and drills.

The way I taught myself to use my homebuild was to dive it in O2 mode initially in <6m. Get the feel of buoyancy, because everything you do in these depths is magnified, simple diving physics. At depth it is soooo much easier. Learn how to get minimum loop. Learn to change depth. Learn to bail out, etc. Get into the habit of watching the displays. Learn how to do flushes. Get comfortable on it.

Then move on to mixed gas diving and declare yourself the worst know nothing bi-valve novice on the planet. Get paranoid. Gradually task load yourself more and more and see how you deal with it. Try to break the Rebreather underwater. Break the RB and see how it functions. One thing I did was remove anything fragile and flood the whole unit. I also deliberately burst a bag underwater, which came in handy when the unit tried to kill me in a French cave by pinning me on to the ceiling. If you do bail out drills then do them at the end of the dive when your hands are cold and you're tired. Make life hard for yourself. Practice keeping a set point while following a profile.

Use common sense. Think about things logically. Set yourself tasks and objectives. What happens if I... sort of thing.

By all means go out and borrow a KISS and do a course if you feel comfortable doing that. I didn't bother on homebuilds and I certainly didn't bother when I got my KISS.

Like the Nike ads say...

Anyway, how is the project going Simon? Hope the scrubber is holding up well. If you're ever up in Dorothea then drop me a line.

__________________
Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you?

www.westons-cider.co.uk

Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler

zepp

What you say, i agree, no-one can teach better than yourself. I have mine built 85% and just use it in a pool in o2 mode as I have to add some ppo2 monitors. i will then venture into the depths of ohhhhhhhhhh 300centeMETRES or so to learn how the bouyency characteristics are.

caveseeker7

Considering that the majority if not all Rebreather fatalities are blamed on diver's mistakes I seriously doubt that nobody can train them better than they could themselves. If so, no matter how bad their agency training was, they shouldn't have made any of the mistakes that killed them.

__________________
Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

lizardland

I thought heart attacks was the biggest Rebreather killer?

Anyway... you are right user error is probably to blame but it isn't the same. These are people going in cold to a new system they have no familiarity with. With homebuilding, you live with that unit, and you know it inside out. Divers who dive commercial RBs do not have the same system familiarity that homebuilders do. The systems and protocols are totally new. With homebuilding this is not the case. With the sounds of Simon's system, it is an orifice and a posh voltmeter.

Also in a number of the fatalaties there has been clear evidence that teh divers knowingly broke established protocols, whether pre dive tests, diving with failed/failing handsets, etc. This has nothing to do with training, this is sloppy diving.

__________________
Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you?

www.westons-cider.co.uk

Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler

Simon A

Cheers for the replies folks, the idea of doing an Inspo course is that it looks close enough to an inspo that I'm unlikely to get hassled by the dive Nazi's, also all the dumps and manual adds are in the same place.
The Kiss valve is realy easy to set up and use, I dont think I'm going to need large amounts of training on that.......... Apart from having to add any required O2 manualy the main difference to an ECCR is that when bailing to OC you need to remember to shut off the O2 cylinder and vent the gas from the O2 pipes, or I'm going to be suffering from "excess bouyancy" due to the volume of the inspo lungs.

Stuart
The 'breather is built and diveable in mixed gas mode and O2 mode. The scrubber is holding up well, but it'll be nicer to fill once it's gone to a friendly machine shop for a few mods...........

Simon A