[joe d]

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

Each one of these is sad family tragedy. When the name is released, we all owe our condolences.

I was getting relieved that it is a safer than average year: we have listed just 10 Rebreather fatalities so far this year (4 in July, 1 June, 1 in May, 1 in April, 2 in March, 1 in February).

2007 reached 14 accidents by this date, 2006 reached 15, 2005 reached 17, and 2004 reached 11, if this is any consolation. I hope this lower trend during the first 7 months can continue until the year end, and the safety messages and equipment improvements produce some results.

We don't know the causes of most of the 2008 accidents yet,but the only possible good that come out of this spate in July is to sober us to take double care to not dive solo with a rebreather, change the cells annually, the scrubber ever 3 hours max, and do those pre-dive checks with a checklist.

Alex

I don't claim to have any facts to support my assumptions since I've only been diving CCR since October.....but then again that's my point.

I regret not having the statistics to confirm my theory but I'd be willing to bet that the number of active CCR divers has increased significantly in the past year. If that's the case, and if the number of incidences has increased at a lower rate, then in reality it really is a safer then average year.

Of course all of this is meaningless to those that have recently lost friends or loved ones......and my sympathy go out to those folks......but hopefully the lessons learned from these losses will help to improve the margin of safety moving forward.

[TR300]

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

We don't know the causes of most of the 2008 accidents yet,but the only possible good that come out of this spate in July is to sober us to take double care to not dive solo with a rebreather, change the cells annually, the scrubber ever 3 hours max, and do those pre-dive checks with a checklist.

Alex

Hi Alex,
and add this to your list:

• hold the line when entering and being in water except when there is no current

• Be sure your fins have springstraps

• check any overpressure valve on your jacket, that it can NOT be opened by a tangled knob (better is, like the DIR gays to cutoff the knob)

Just what I have learned.

Holger

[AD_ward9]

Quote: (Originally Posted by TR300)

Hi Alex,
and add this to your list:

• hold the line when entering and being in water except when there is no current

• Be sure your fins have springstraps

• check any overpressure valve on your jacket, that it can NOT be opened by a tangled knob (better is, like the DIR gays to cutoff the knob)

Just what I have learned.

Holger

These are basic diving issues. I will add them to the FMECA 6 just to ensure they are captured though.

Not holding onto the line: any diver I dive with could do a free descent to 70msw, current or otherwise. Too much current and they miss the wreck and make an SMB ascent back up again. If the SMB cylinder is filled up Divers who can't do that, should not be on that dive, IMHO. Warning out there for anyone who might want to miss out building experience before realising their dreams.

Overpressure valves: this is one I don't understand. To get off the surface on has to empty the loop. Near the surface, just let it fill and bingo, I'm on the surface again. Apart from that, just inflate my suit (I do that before a wing, as I don't fancy ultra-soprano roles at my age). If all is shot, then bye bye goes that weight belt. I have never actually dropped a weight belt, but my predive checklist checks I can reach it and it is not trapped anywhere. I have a second clip usually, in case it decides to come off on its own. For all this to go wrong, there has a be a big cluster effect. Of course, if one leaves it too late then there is the striat-jacket effect with the diver shrink-wrapped in a dry suit. This has to be a big muddle on the boat and in the water for none of this to work.

Fins and springs. I like spring straps. Do not like Mares clips, or rotten fin straps. They always snap or come off when one does not want it. My Mares have a wire pin through the yellow lug, and a pair of spring straps fitted. I agree, fins should have spring straps always. Can't figure out how any other strap ever got a looking, but they not only have, they have taken over.

Good list of the most basic things. I will get it into the FMECA V6 list.

You did not mention not doing deep dives in a dry suit, unless trained and experienced. The only training on a dry suit is to form a ball if your legs become inflated, then upright. This is the usual failure mode for divers in dry bags, other than the neck seal is too tight. People have died from strangulation from latex neck seals!

Alex

NB: After saying all of this, who out there does not have a bad day? I did two dives recently that were embarrassing: on the first the SMB cylinder was empty - the SMBs were swapped accidently on the surface, and the second one was immediately afterwards where the SMB cylinder was not screwed in well enough, so after inflating, going up, it came back down again. Not had any SMB issues like this before. We all need to be careful with the basics, and familiarity breeds contempt or complacency.

[diverklondike]

Gang....

All very good converversations but can we please try to keep the threads on topic... We have 4-5 that seem to keep overlapping.

Thanks!

RBW Staff

[Ferg3333]

Can someone explain to me the need for spring straps, I understand they will not break so to speak, but then the rubber ones on my turtles have lasted years, but it does not eliminate the possibility of the shackle connecting the strap to the fin from breaking.

or am i missing the point completely??

[Ben Field]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ferg3333)

Can someone explain to me the need for spring straps, I understand they will not break so to speak, but then the rubber ones on my turtles have lasted years, but it does not eliminate the possibility of the shackle connecting the strap to the fin from breaking.

or am i missing the point completely??

I believe the idea is spring straps are more likely to retain the fin to the foot in the event of an inverted ascent- rubber and clip straps get snapped/unclipped as the boot expands, whereas the spring expands and springs back once you get rid of the excess suit gas......IMO they are easier/quicker to put on and reduce the risk of putting your back out, which is my most regular diving injury! :-(

[TR300]

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

These are basic diving issues. I will add them to the FMECA 6 just to ensure they are captured though.

Not holding onto the line: any diver I dive with could do a free descent to 70msw, current or otherwise. Too much current and they miss the wreck and make an SMB ascent back up again. If the SMB cylinder is filled up

Hi Alex,
the kind of doing descent and SMB ascent changes from dive site to dive site. Yes, I like the way to dive e.g. in Scapa Flow, free descent and ascent on the SMB, but in the open Northern Atlantic (North East Coast USA) there is only one way you have to go down on the shot line and came up on the shot line, using a SMB is only a emergency procedure, thats harms the hole trip, because of, the current is strong (normally) and the Boat can leave only until the last diver is save on Board to search for you (then miles away)

Holger

[TR300]

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Gang....

All very good converversations but can we please try to keep the threads on topic... We have 4-5 that seem to keep overlapping.

Thanks!

Rebreather World Staff

Hi, is it possible to move the threads to a new topic ? I think the discussion is interesting.

Holger

[AD_ward9]

Quote: (Originally Posted by TR300)

Hi Alex,
the kind of doing descent and SMB ascent changes from dive site to dive site. Yes, I like the way to dive e.g. in Scapa Flow, free descent and ascent on the SMB, but in the open Northern Atlantic (North East Coast USA) there is only one way you have to go down on the shot line and came up on the shot line, using a SMB is only a emergency procedure, thats harms the hole trip, because of, the current is strong (normally) and the Boat can leave only until the last diver is save on Board to search for you (then miles away)

Holger

I understand the differences in the different location. My point was about skill level. I do lament the lack of chase boats on some of the charters that do the Doria, but what I was getting at is that these things should not cause a diving fatality. If the diver has the basic skills, they can handle the cluster foul up quite comfortably. If the basic skills are missing, then one event causes a train from which there is no returning, as was sadly the case here.

Alex

[TR300]

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

I understand the differences in the different location. My point was about skill level. I do lament the lack of chase boats on some of the charters that do the Doria, but what I was getting at is that these things should not cause a diving fatality. If the diver has the basic skills, they can handle the cluster foul up quite comfortably. If the basic skills are missing, then one event causes a train from which there is no returning, as was sadly the case here.

Alex

Hi Alex,
maybe yes, maybe no, it is not clear what the reasons are. There can be to many things going wrong. In my opinion, the case for the most accidents are not clear to find out what exactly was happened under the surface. The things I have seen in my long dive career has sometimes changes my art in diving and some configurations, every dive (equal if good or bad) gives new lessons to learn.

Holger