CCR TriMix Course Contents

***EBT*** · 7th July 2008, 12:05

Well, the question I'd ask is "Can we plan a dive to xxm for xx mins, and then you take me through the bailout strategies, including working out gas mixes/volumes etc"

If you plan something a lot more meaty than you want to do, at least you can be sure you understand the reasoning behind things.

tecdivertraining · 7th July 2008, 12:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

Well, the question I'd ask is "Can we plan a dive to xxm for xx mins, and then you take me through the bailout strategies, including working out gas mixes/volumes etc"

If you plan something a lot more meaty than you want to do, at least you can be sure you understand the reasoning behind things.

Good advise, on you Adv mix course work through an example of sub 120m-150m dive with your instructor even if you don't plan to do it in training it will help highlight real issues of Decent speeds, ascent speeds, HPNS issues, ICD, all the gas volume/support issues and a whole world more.

That famous list of "what if's" from the main man Exley can be brought to well over 100 with our existing ccr understanding a good homework assignment pre-course..

jkaterenchuk · 7th July 2008, 16:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

See my note:

What they may be capable of might not be possible for a w/end diver.

I attempted a SCR bailout with 90mins deco. I ended up with a masive headach, chest pains and a very sore nose.

I kind of ruled out SCR on an inspo as a serious alternative to adiquate OC gas after that experimnet. I hear the ADV on the Meg is easier to work with. The KISS definitly isnt.

On the other hand he may breeze it. My point is a 10min go at things like running the unit blind and SCR doset realy stack up to a full on deco exit with it.

ATB

Mark

Mark

Having a Kiss Classic, Inspo and Meg my opinion would be that the Inspo ADV is the easiest to run SCR. On my unit you can trigger the Meg ADV slightly easier than on the Inspo but it delivers the gas volume slower than the Inspo. Its kind of like sucking from a straw. Not a problem just different. If you trigger the Meg ADV using your hand then it delivers a huge volume of gas and fills the loop in less than one second.

I took the ANDI TRD course on the Inspo and we did at least 60 minutes running SCR including a complete ascent, writing down PO2 info on first inhale and last exhale at several depths and sending up a bag. I can't remember if I had a headache since I was so busy focusing on doing all the s**t at the same time. I was very glad that this was handled on the course in such a complete manner versus the couple minute SCR run.

Are there any other standard/normal mix scenerios you might suggest I review with the instructor that might be different than his?

Off the top of my head I could make a list including:
1) What I has been contribute on Rebreather World.
2) DIR standards.
3) Based upon ease of blending.

John

jkaterenchuk · 7th July 2008, 16:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

Good advise, on you Adv mix course work through an example of sub 120m-150m dive with your instructor even if you don't plan to do it in training it will help highlight real issues of Decent speeds, ascent speeds, HPNS issues, ICD, all the gas volume/support issues and a whole world more.

That famous list of "what if's" from the main man Exley can be brought to well over 100 with our existing ccr understanding a good homework assignment pre-course..

Great suggestion that exactly what I am looking for in terms of input.

How do I get a copy of the "what if's" you mention as I do not recall coming across it in the past?

John

tecdivertraining · 8th July 2008, 01:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

Great suggestion that exactly what I am looking for in terms of input.

How do I get a copy of the "what if's" you mention as I do not recall coming across it in the past?

John

to get you started. note they are OC but some are just general.

Sheck exley what if’s

Have you ever thought about?

A lost buddy while you still have a decompression obligation?
You and buddy are at different deco depths?
Buddy passes out at depth?
Buddy convulses at depth?
Buddy has deco gas failure?
Lost dive boat during decompression?
Loss of back gas while at depth?
Loss of tables?
Computers fail at depth?
Computer won’t switch gases as programmed
You forget to switch gases?
Loss of travel mix?
Loss of deco mix?
Drysuit floods at depth?
Drysuit floods at deco?
Weather makes excessive seas?
Current changes to 2 knots? 3 knots?
Winds drive free floating boat towards reef shoals during deco?
BC failure at depth?
BC failure at deco?
Too light (positive) at deco?
Regulator failure on travel mix cylinder?
Regulator failure on deco mix cylinder?
Lost dive mask?
Mask strap failure at depth?
Mask strap failure at deco?
Wear the mask strap inside the hood and it shifts during gas change?
Lost fin?
Broken fin strap?
BC inflator sticks open?
BC inflator assembly cracks?
Your depth gauge is inaccurate?
Depth gauge reads too deep?
Depth gauge reads too shallow?
Your secondary timer fails?
You over breathe the regulator at depth?
The deco second stage pops off the hose?
You are dehydrated?
Sharks show up during deco?
Box jellyfish are at your identical deco depth?
You drop your deco cylinder on the wreck. but cant find it?
You return to your deco cylinder but someone elses name is on them?
The lift bag reel jams?
You forget to attach the line to the lifbag prior to release?
The line tangles in your valves as the bag screams to the surface?
Your buddy grabs the regulator in your mouth. but hose chokes you?
You find your backup regulator clogged with sand?
You pass your primary, but the secondary doesn’t work?
Your manifold cracks and fails?
The mixing gauge was incorrect?
The filling lines were contaminated?
The top-off gas was contaminated?
You put the wrong label on the deco and travel cylinders?
You color code regulators, but lose visibility?
You use different style second stages to identify contents, but put wrong reg on cylinder?
You use tiny contents labels and become confused during gas switch?
You lose argon for drysuit?
You suffer bends symptoms at deco?
You need to throw up while at deco?
The dive boat cuts loose to pick up another diver?
The dive boat sinks??????????

Add Some of your own:

**wedivebc** · 8th July 2008, 02:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

On my unit you can trigger the Meg ADV slightly easier than on the Inspo but it delivers the gas volume slower than the Inspo. Its kind of like sucking from a straw.

Do you have one of the old megs with the scubapro ADV? I have found mine with the newer design very easy to breath.

jkaterenchuk · 8th July 2008, 04:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc)

Do you have one of the old megs with the scubapro ADV? I have found mine with the newer design very easy to breath.

Its a newer design. I will check it on someone elses unit to see if its me or the unit.

John

jkaterenchuk · 8th July 2008, 04:29

Thanks Matt

Nice of you to take the time to share that information.

John

7th July 2008, 12:05	#11 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,110	Re: CCR TriMix Course Contents Well, the question I'd ask is "Can we plan a dive to xxm for xx mins, and then you take me through the bailout strategies, including working out gas mixes/volumes etc" If you plan something a lot more meaty than you want to do, at least you can be sure you understand the reasoning behind things. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
(Offline)

7th July 2008, 12:23	#12 (permalink)
tecdivertraining EXPLORER Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 531	Re: CCR TriMix Course Contents Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) Well, the question I'd ask is "Can we plan a dive to xxm for xx mins, and then you take me through the bailout strategies, including working out gas mixes/volumes etc" If you plan something a lot more meaty than you want to do, at least you can be sure you understand the reasoning behind things. Good advise, on you Adv mix course work through an example of sub 120m-150m dive with your instructor even if you don't plan to do it in training it will help highlight real issues of Decent speeds, ascent speeds, HPNS issues, ICD, all the gas volume/support issues and a whole world more. That famous list of "what if's" from the main man Exley can be brought to well over 100 with our existing ccr understanding a good homework assignment pre-course.. __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
(Offline)

7th July 2008, 16:02	#13 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,088	Re: CCR TriMix Course Contents Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) See my note: What they may be capable of might not be possible for a w/end diver. I attempted a SCR bailout with 90mins deco. I ended up with a masive headach, chest pains and a very sore nose. I kind of ruled out SCR on an inspo as a serious alternative to adiquate OC gas after that experimnet. I hear the ADV on the Meg is easier to work with. The KISS definitly isnt. On the other hand he may breeze it. My point is a 10min go at things like running the unit blind and SCR doset realy stack up to a full on deco exit with it. ATB Mark Mark Having a Kiss Classic, Inspo and Meg my opinion would be that the Inspo ADV is the easiest to run SCR. On my unit you can trigger the Meg ADV slightly easier than on the Inspo but it delivers the gas volume slower than the Inspo. Its kind of like sucking from a straw. Not a problem just different. If you trigger the Meg ADV using your hand then it delivers a huge volume of gas and fills the loop in less than one second. I took the ANDI TRD course on the Inspo and we did at least 60 minutes running SCR including a complete ascent, writing down PO2 info on first inhale and last exhale at several depths and sending up a bag. I can't remember if I had a headache since I was so busy focusing on doing all the s*t at the same time. I was very glad that this was handled on the course in such a complete manner versus the couple minute SCR run. Are there any other standard/normal mix scenerios you might suggest I review with the instructor that might be different than his? Off the top of my head I could make a list including: 1) What I has been contribute on Rebreather World. 2) DIR standards. 3) Based upon ease of blending. John Last edited by jkaterenchuk : 7th July 2008 at 16:04.*
(Offline)

7th July 2008, 16:07	#14 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,088	Re: CCR TriMix Course Contents Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) Good advise, on you Adv mix course work through an example of sub 120m-150m dive with your instructor even if you don't plan to do it in training it will help highlight real issues of Decent speeds, ascent speeds, HPNS issues, ICD, all the gas volume/support issues and a whole world more. That famous list of "what if's" from the main man Exley can be brought to well over 100 with our existing ccr understanding a good homework assignment pre-course.. Great suggestion that exactly what I am looking for in terms of input. How do I get a copy of the "what if's" you mention as I do not recall coming across it in the past? John
(Offline)

8th July 2008, 01:51	#15 (permalink)
tecdivertraining EXPLORER Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 531	Re: CCR TriMix Course Contents Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) Great suggestion that exactly what I am looking for in terms of input. How do I get a copy of the "what if's" you mention as I do not recall coming across it in the past? John to get you started. note they are OC but some are just general. Sheck exley what if’s Have you ever thought about? A lost buddy while you still have a decompression obligation? You and buddy are at different deco depths? Buddy passes out at depth? Buddy convulses at depth? Buddy has deco gas failure? Lost dive boat during decompression? Loss of back gas while at depth? Loss of tables? Computers fail at depth? Computer won’t switch gases as programmed You forget to switch gases? Loss of travel mix? Loss of deco mix? Drysuit floods at depth? Drysuit floods at deco? Weather makes excessive seas? Current changes to 2 knots? 3 knots? Winds drive free floating boat towards reef shoals during deco? BC failure at depth? BC failure at deco? Too light (positive) at deco? Regulator failure on travel mix cylinder? Regulator failure on deco mix cylinder? Lost dive mask? Mask strap failure at depth? Mask strap failure at deco? Wear the mask strap inside the hood and it shifts during gas change? Lost fin? Broken fin strap? BC inflator sticks open? BC inflator assembly cracks? Your depth gauge is inaccurate? Depth gauge reads too deep? Depth gauge reads too shallow? Your secondary timer fails? You over breathe the regulator at depth? The deco second stage pops off the hose? You are dehydrated? Sharks show up during deco? Box jellyfish are at your identical deco depth? You drop your deco cylinder on the wreck. but cant find it? You return to your deco cylinder but someone elses name is on them? The lift bag reel jams? You forget to attach the line to the lifbag prior to release? The line tangles in your valves as the bag screams to the surface? Your buddy grabs the regulator in your mouth. but hose chokes you? You find your backup regulator clogged with sand? You pass your primary, but the secondary doesn’t work? Your manifold cracks and fails? The mixing gauge was incorrect? The filling lines were contaminated? The top-off gas was contaminated? You put the wrong label on the deco and travel cylinders? You color code regulators, but lose visibility? You use different style second stages to identify contents, but put wrong reg on cylinder? You use tiny contents labels and become confused during gas switch? You lose argon for drysuit? You suffer bends symptoms at deco? You need to throw up while at deco? The dive boat cuts loose to pick up another diver? The dive boat sinks?????????? Add Some of your own: __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
(Offline)

8th July 2008, 02:05	#16 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,508	Re: CCR TriMix Course Contents Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) On my unit you can trigger the Meg ADV slightly easier than on the Inspo but it delivers the gas volume slower than the Inspo. Its kind of like sucking from a straw. Do you have one of the old megs with the scubapro ADV? I have found mine with the newer design very easy to breath. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
(Online)

8th July 2008, 04:13	#17 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,088	Re: CCR TriMix Course Contents Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc) Do you have one of the old megs with the scubapro ADV? I have found mine with the newer design very easy to breath. Its a newer design. I will check it on someone elses unit to see if its me or the unit. John
(Offline)

8th July 2008, 04:29	#18 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,088	Re: CCR TriMix Course Contents Thanks Matt Nice of you to take the time to share that information. John
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