Certification madness or reasonable requirements?

aainslie

Mark,

I think you ahve two conflicting issues here. One is that you'd love to go on this trip. the other is that you'd like to do reasonable dives without excessive training.

To keep the training minimal, it really pays to keep going back to the same instructor. Any conservative instructor is going to insist on conservative rules with someone they've never met. It seems to me that Cobalt are being perfectly reasonable in this respect.

But if you've done a lot of classes with the same instructor, and you've done well, by now they should be getting more reasonable about requirements for the next class.

So - my suggestion would be to blow off this week and rather spend more time with yourcurrent instructor, then go back in Aug or Sept when they have their tech week and enjoy that!

BTW, I'm going through some VERY similar issues - and that's the plan I came up with.

__________________
Andrew Ainslie

MarcLaukien

I agree. On the other hand, learning from different instructors is also valuable, since each can offer you a new perspective.

Also, different instructors teach different specialties. My cave instructor taught me OC cave diving, my Trimix instructor OC Trimix, and my CCR instructors taught me CCR diving on the Optima and HH, respectively. There are not that many instructors that offer everything, and have a schedule that matches mine. In other words, using the same instructor for everything often just doesn't work.

Somehow my main point also seems to have gotten lost if I read some of the responses. I never claimed that it wouldn't make sense for resorts to enforce that divers have proper certifications (be it because they are afraid of lawsuits or because of other reasons). However, it should be possible to obtain such certifications in a reasonable way. The two examples that I cited, i.e., having your logged hours reset to zero when you switch a unit, and re-doing Normoxic Trimix with CCR from scratch when you are already OC Normoxic Trimix certified, are in my opinion not reasonable.

Anyway, I don't think I can add anything useful to this discussion anymore. Clearly, I was a bit frustrated when I wrote this, because I would love to go back to the Cayman Islands for rebreather diving, but there is too much red tape for me right now. I guess eventually, I simply have to go the path of least resistance and do all these certs to keep such resorts happy.

Mixaddict

Marc,

I feel you pain! It takes a tremendous amount of time, money and energy to get through the classes, and then have to start over again with a new unit. Having done so, numerous times at many different levels student/instructor etc. on both OC and CCR, I can honestly say that even though I was dreading the classes going in, I learned a significant amount of information and new skills with each course, and in hindsight don't regret any of them.

Each instructor will teach you something new or a different way to look at things. Each level on each unit will teach you new skills that will potentially save your life. Regardless of what most untrained CCR trimix divers say, a trimix dive on OC and CCR are two different animals. They may be small nuances, but well worth the course if you take it from a qualified instructor.

Besides, what a great place to do the course and enjoy some great dives! Grand Cayman - Dive Tech- it could be a lot worse!

By the way, most agencies have 2 or 3 levels of CCR training, with a much shorter cross over path for different units, once you are already at that particular level. I would discuss this with your potential instructor(s) once you have obtained your Advanced Trimix CCR level training.

Have fun at Dive Tech. It's a great place to dive from. I'll be down there myself next month doing yet more training!

Regards,
Randy

__________________
Randy Thornton (MixAddict)
Inspiration, Evolution,Hammerhead & Sentinel
CCR Instructor

jkaterenchuk

Come dive with me when I come down to Miami May 14 to 21. We can do wrecks in Ft Lauderdale area or go down to Key Largo or further or do Caves up north. I'm there for one thing only. Do some CCR dives preferrable with some long BT. We even had the same CCR instructor and I have changed units in the last year so we can share stories and gripes.

Surely its got to be more fun to dive with me then go to Cayman and cheaper too.

John

MarcLaukien

Definitely, let's organize a few SCRUB dives when you are here!

pwl4476

John, Mark, et al,

I think it's safe to say that there are others, including me, that feel the same as you do on this subject. The system should really take a closer look at itself in this area.

Paul

mempilot

I've taken 4 trimix courses from IANTD. All 4 were identical up until the last few slides with some minor differences in the 'core'. After approximately $4000 of trimix training, I'm still not certified to dive mix on my Meg. I do, however, and have only been asked for to show proof once. I put my OC Full Trimix card on the counter and said that should cover it.

I've looked at the IANTD CCR Trimix materials. Guess what? 95% the same material with some new information. That new information should be offered as a 4 hour course with 3 dives, subjective to the instructor. The first dive should be shakedown basic skills evaluation that either redlights or greenlights the next couple of dives to evaluate the planning and usage of mix, and it should be reasonably priced since it isn't 'basic' training all over again. With a 'greenlighted' diver, this course should be a piece of cake for the instructor.

There are some prominent instructors, whom I've had the conversation with, that agree with this. The conversation went further to say CCR Trimix should be available as an add-on course to pair up with say CCR Cave or even MOD1.

$1000+ week long CCR Trimix courses for OC Normoxic and Full Trimix divers is the equivilent of double taxation and is there to protect instructors that do it as their primary source of income. Sorry if that stings anyone, but it is true.

__________________
MEM "Da Pilot"

Black holes are where God divided by zero.

"If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent."

"Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins

"Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."

mempilot

I agree with Marc 100% on the silliness of the dive clock starting over at zero with the purchase of a new unit.

Aircraft are infinately more complex than a rebreather, yet a pilot earns the ratings once and then shows competency through a 'cross-over' check out training on the new aircraft. This training is the equivilent of the MOD1 course for a new Rebreather, and all previously earned qualifications come along with the endorsement. Their flight time never starts over.

I'll argue this further with anyone that wants to try and make an argument for irrelevent time spent on a previous unit. BS.

__________________
MEM "Da Pilot"

Black holes are where God divided by zero.

"If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent."

"Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins

"Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."

Mark Chase

Generaly good comments in this thread.

A CCR cert should be just that. A certification to dive a rebreather. Having to retrain every time you switch units is daft. A simple one day familurisation course should sufice with the option for a full refresher course should the student request it.

ATB

Mark

__________________
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Steve the Box

The way the UK is going we will all have a camera
up our arse anyway, so They will know if you are
doing bad boy dives with out the right C Card,
how about the dive tatto much harder to fake !!!