Buddy breathing

Dsix36 · 4th February 2008, 02:39

Can someone tell me any reasons that buddy breathing on a Rebreather will/won't work?

I know that the deco will be screwed since there will be 2 divers breathing the same loop and the tissue loading will be split between both divers.

I dive with a eCCR and it will maintain the SP regardless of how many are breathing off the loop.

It just seems that it might be better for 2 divers to pad the hell out of the stops rather than have 1 of them run out of air and die. It might be a little awkward being in each others face for the duration though.

Obviously, I think that it is possible. I look forward to the replies.

Open for discussion or argument, whichever you prefer!

sensor330 · 4th February 2008, 03:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

Can someone tell me any reasons that buddy breathing on a Rebreather will/won't work?

I know that the deco will be screwed since there will be 2 divers breathing the same loop and the tissue loading will be split between both divers.

I dive with a eCCR and it will maintain the SP regardless of how many are breathing off the loop.

It just seems that it might be better for 2 divers to pad the hell out of the stops rather than have 1 of them run out of air and die. It might be a little awkward being in each others face for the duration though.

Obviously, I think that it is possible. I look forward to the replies.

Open for discussion or argument, whichever you prefer!

Depending on how long you buddy breath CO2 could be a issue. I think OC is a much better choice.

**mattmexico** · 4th February 2008, 04:06

yo

Buddy breathing on a CCR or SCR does work. I practiced it in 1996 when taking my SCR Atlantis course from a Navy Seal Instructor. The way we went about it was the out of gas diver was on top of the donating diver.

The donating diver took two breath, closed the mouth piece then passed it up to the receiving diver, never letting go of the mouth piece.

The receiving diver takes the mouth piece into his mouth, takes two breath, closes the mouthpiece and passes the mouthpiece back down to the donating diver.

We where able to do rounds in the pool for some time without missing a beat and without flooding the loop.

When diving in a shit storm and all is failing this will be a option to survive the dive.

Matt

**wedivebc** · 4th February 2008, 04:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

Can someone tell me any reasons that buddy breathing on a Rebreather will/won't work?

I know that the deco will be screwed since there will be 2 divers breathing the same loop and the tissue loading will be split between both divers.

I dive with a eCCR and it will maintain the SP regardless of how many are breathing off the loop.

It just seems that it might be better for 2 divers to pad the hell out of the stops rather than have 1 of them run out of air and die. It might be a little awkward being in each others face for the duration though.

Obviously, I think that it is possible. I look forward to the replies.

Open for discussion or argument, whichever you prefer!

When I did my training on the dolphin I was taught to buddy breath. It is not easy and should be an absolute last resort.
I can't think of any reason it would change tissue loading though as long as PO2 of breathing gas stays the same.

Drmike · 4th February 2008, 04:43

Played around with this a few times just for fun - but seriously doubt it would ever be doable in real life for a number of reasons.

What worked reasonably well was OOA diver to lay on donating divers back then donating divers dsv is passed back and forth between divers over donating divers head.

Short hosed RBs dont lend themselves to this

Just for fun try it with the donating diver scootering out of a cave

Its important that the donating diver carry a dive knife.........

Gilles · 4th February 2008, 08:31

Anyone grabbbing my DSV for a breath, is gonna have to fight with me first

.

**nigelh** · 4th February 2008, 08:49

I've seen it done and was impressed but declined the offer to try. It looked like something that was messy for the first few swaps then they got into the swing of it. This was on Inspo Classics - donor below.

I don't see that it would mess up a deco schedule any more than buddy breathing a stage. You don't off gas enough during the breath hold section to change the lung ppInert. The majority of any off gas effect goes into a slight increase in volume and the ratio doesn't change significantly.

paulraymaekers · 4th February 2008, 09:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

Can someone tell me any reasons that buddy breathing on a Rebreather will/won't work?

I know that the deco will be screwed since there will be 2 divers breathing the same loop and the tissue loading will be split between both divers.

I dive with a eCCR and it will maintain the SP regardless of how many are breathing off the loop.

It just seems that it might be better for 2 divers to pad the hell out of the stops rather than have 1 of them run out of air and die. It might be a little awkward being in each others face for the duration though.

Obviously, I think that it is possible. I look forward to the replies.

Open for discussion or argument, whichever you prefer!

It works, no problem, but you better practice it in a pool :-)

in real emergency, if you and your buddy know the drill, it can work, if not... hhmmmm

deco is no issue: PPO2 is PPO2

I never did buddybreathing in emergency, but breathinghose swap:

red sea, highest mix available 36%, so we got bottom mix, intermediate, and nitrox 36
coming back from 115m, my buddy on rEvo I flooded 100% (dirt in OPV, not cleaned before), switch to OC at 75m, on intermediate, then on 36, but with max 36%, you imagine the duration of the deco..
so once I got off my deco, at 6m, I went on OC, blocked myself in a small hole in the reef, my buddy sat behind me and took my breathing hose, and finished his deco on my CCR
to much current to switch units at that time

was a nice drill: deco could have been completed on OC, but was an extra hour compared to CC

paul

teomannaskali · 4th February 2008, 12:28

I remember some time back there was a thread about this. Was it the MK15's that had a second set of hoses and dsv for the needing diver?

If you really wanted to you could desing the T pieces to double up as DSV's... or if you have OTS CL's just add another dsv to one of rear hoses so you can buddy breathe mating frog style.

I would be more concearned about the scrubber if both divers are hyperventilating because of the emergency, there could be a scrubber brake through and they could get a co2 hit at the same time...

Teoman

Scubascooby · 4th February 2008, 12:57

In my BSAC manual I am sure it shows how twin-hose divers used to air-share.

Face to face and holding onto each other with one hand, the mouthpiece
is rotated about the axis of the hoses. Might not work well with an APD.

In this position the divers have eye contact and can see each others signals.

4th February 2008, 02:39	#1 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,154	Buddy breathing Can someone tell me any reasons that buddy breathing on a Rebreather will/won't work? I know that the deco will be screwed since there will be 2 divers breathing the same loop and the tissue loading will be split between both divers. I dive with a eCCR and it will maintain the SP regardless of how many are breathing off the loop. It just seems that it might be better for 2 divers to pad the hell out of the stops rather than have 1 of them run out of air and die. It might be a little awkward being in each others face for the duration though. Obviously, I think that it is possible. I look forward to the replies. Open for discussion or argument, whichever you prefer! __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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4th February 2008, 03:20	#2 (permalink)
sensor330 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 594	Re: Buddy breathing Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) Can someone tell me any reasons that buddy breathing on a Rebreather will/won't work? I know that the deco will be screwed since there will be 2 divers breathing the same loop and the tissue loading will be split between both divers. I dive with a eCCR and it will maintain the SP regardless of how many are breathing off the loop. It just seems that it might be better for 2 divers to pad the hell out of the stops rather than have 1 of them run out of air and die. It might be a little awkward being in each others face for the duration though. Obviously, I think that it is possible. I look forward to the replies. Open for discussion or argument, whichever you prefer! Depending on how long you buddy breath CO2 could be a issue. I think OC is a much better choice.
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4th February 2008, 04:06	#3 (permalink)
mattmexico PROTEC MEXICO Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Optima RB80 / Clone Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss RB80 / Clone Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Mexico, Q.Roo, Playa del Carmen Posts: 773	Re: Buddy breathing yo Buddy breathing on a CCR or SCR does work. I practiced it in 1996 when taking my SCR Atlantis course from a Navy Seal Instructor. The way we went about it was the out of gas diver was on top of the donating diver. The donating diver took two breath, closed the mouth piece then passed it up to the receiving diver, never letting go of the mouth piece. The receiving diver takes the mouth piece into his mouth, takes two breath, closes the mouthpiece and passes the mouthpiece back down to the donating diver. We where able to do rounds in the pool for some time without missing a beat and without flooding the loop. When diving in a shit storm and all is failing this will be a option to survive the dive. Matt __________________ N 20' 37.617' W 87' 04.693' www.andreaswmatthes.com Last edited by mattmexico : 4th February 2008 at 04:08.
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4th February 2008, 04:06	#4 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,508	Re: Buddy breathing Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) Can someone tell me any reasons that buddy breathing on a Rebreather will/won't work? I know that the deco will be screwed since there will be 2 divers breathing the same loop and the tissue loading will be split between both divers. I dive with a eCCR and it will maintain the SP regardless of how many are breathing off the loop. It just seems that it might be better for 2 divers to pad the hell out of the stops rather than have 1 of them run out of air and die. It might be a little awkward being in each others face for the duration though. Obviously, I think that it is possible. I look forward to the replies. Open for discussion or argument, whichever you prefer! When I did my training on the dolphin I was taught to buddy breath. It is not easy and should be an absolute last resort. I can't think of any reason it would change tissue loading though as long as PO2 of breathing gas stays the same. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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4th February 2008, 04:43	#5 (permalink)
Drmike RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,378	Re: Buddy breathing Played around with this a few times just for fun - but seriously doubt it would ever be doable in real life for a number of reasons. What worked reasonably well was OOA diver to lay on donating divers back then donating divers dsv is passed back and forth between divers over donating divers head. Short hosed RBs dont lend themselves to this Just for fun try it with the donating diver scootering out of a cave Its important that the donating diver carry a dive knife......... __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 4th February 2008 at 04:46.
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4th February 2008, 08:31	#6 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: Buddy breathing Anyone grabbbing my DSV for a breath, is gonna have to fight with me first. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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4th February 2008, 08:49	#7 (permalink)
nigelh New member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 883	Re: Buddy breathing I've seen it done and was impressed but declined the offer to try. It looked like something that was messy for the first few swaps then they got into the swing of it. This was on Inspo Classics - donor below. I don't see that it would mess up a deco schedule any more than buddy breathing a stage. You don't off gas enough during the breath hold section to change the lung ppInert. The majority of any off gas effect goes into a slight increase in volume and the ratio doesn't change significantly. __________________ nigelh
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4th February 2008, 09:33	#8 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,638	Re: Buddy breathing Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) Can someone tell me any reasons that buddy breathing on a Rebreather will/won't work? I know that the deco will be screwed since there will be 2 divers breathing the same loop and the tissue loading will be split between both divers. I dive with a eCCR and it will maintain the SP regardless of how many are breathing off the loop. It just seems that it might be better for 2 divers to pad the hell out of the stops rather than have 1 of them run out of air and die. It might be a little awkward being in each others face for the duration though. Obviously, I think that it is possible. I look forward to the replies. Open for discussion or argument, whichever you prefer! It works, no problem, but you better practice it in a pool :-) in real emergency, if you and your buddy know the drill, it can work, if not... hhmmmm deco is no issue: PPO2 is PPO2 I never did buddybreathing in emergency, but breathinghose swap: red sea, highest mix available 36%, so we got bottom mix, intermediate, and nitrox 36 coming back from 115m, my buddy on rEvo I flooded 100% (dirt in OPV, not cleaned before), switch to OC at 75m, on intermediate, then on 36, but with max 36%, you imagine the duration of the deco.. so once I got off my deco, at 6m, I went on OC, blocked myself in a small hole in the reef, my buddy sat behind me and took my breathing hose, and finished his deco on my CCR to much current to switch units at that time was a nice drill: deco could have been completed on OC, but was an extra hour compared to CC paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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4th February 2008, 12:28	#9 (permalink)
teomannaskali RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Istanbul TR Posts: 421	Re: Buddy breathing I remember some time back there was a thread about this. Was it the MK15's that had a second set of hoses and dsv for the needing diver? If you really wanted to you could desing the T pieces to double up as DSV's... or if you have OTS CL's just add another dsv to one of rear hoses so you can buddy breathe mating frog style. I would be more concearned about the scrubber if both divers are hyperventilating because of the emergency, there could be a scrubber brake through and they could get a co2 hit at the same time... Teoman
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4th February 2008, 12:57	#10 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 418	Re: Buddy breathing In my BSAC manual I am sure it shows how twin-hose divers used to air-share. Face to face and holding onto each other with one hand, the mouthpiece is rotated about the axis of the hoses. Might not work well with an APD. In this position the divers have eye contact and can see each others signals. __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive" Better off OUT of the EU ! www.hugsac.org.uk
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