Recreational Rebreathers?

bobby

I can remember back when the Inspiration was marketed as a recreational rebreather and the results of that marketing. It seems that more and more I am again hearing the term "recreational rebreather" commonly used. One of the things that has always made me wonder is that recreational divers are only certified to use up to 40% nitrox or from some agencies 50%. I only teach Advanced Nitrox in conjunction with Decompression Procedures as most instructors that I know. The reason is that the two classes go hand in hand.

I just don't get the "recreational rebreather" when the unit requires the use of 100% O2 to operate it. I understand marketing and all that but that marketing to the recreational diver when the industry has created a standard of limiting the % of O2 for recreational divers seems to me an open liability invitation.

Throw in divers habit of not paying attention to their electronics such as dive computers and NDL's I start to wonder about a recreational diver paying enough attention to their automatic rebreather to solve an issue before it becomes lethal in the event of a failure.

Interested to see what others thoughts are on the subject.

Bobby

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jepuskar

It all depends on your view of what a recreational diver is.

It comes down to the individual, not their highest training received. Just because someone is a recreational diver doesn't mean they are incapable of monitoring electronics etc...

How many recreational divers, barring the rich, would shell out $5,000-$12,000 for a unit/training and just be a vacation diver..or maybe get in less than 15 dives a year??

I think this market is aimed at divers who take their diving seriously, yet want to remain at 'recreational' depths and within their NDL. Not all of us recreational divers are irresponsible.

J

mountain diver

I wouldn't worry about it to much,every agency has it's idea of how students
should be taught, the underwriter's have there escape clauses just as the
recreational diver has there's ( NDL) forgive the pun.
also, I realize that some instructors teach advance nitrox & decompression
procedures, why? ( not that it is wrong or is it?) 100% 02 is not nitrox,
does this mean that every ccr diver is not certified to dive their rebreather
because they have only advanced nitrox ( 41%- 99%) and that ccr student
that got his/her mod 1 with a cert that says 40 meter maximum depth
with no decompression diving, can now dive beyond that because they have a deco card? is there not a liability here?
please don't misunderstand me, all I'm saying is we can pick this to pieces
and still get no where, instead let's help each other out and become better
and safer divers, so we can live to dive another day.

all the best.

caveseeker7

Well, if you look at rebreathers, the early volume models were sold to either militaries or, to a lesser extend, commercial diving outfits. Just look at the MK15/CCR1000, what percentage of those ended up in private hands initially? Even the Cis-Lunar MK-5p was sold to the military, in about a 2:1 ratio to civillian sales. Same for the various SCR units produced in Europe.

Dräger and AP had the first high volume model rebreathers that were specifically targeting private individuals, and doing so successfully.

Recreational does depend on the definition, rec vs. tec, rec vs. professional, plenty of options available. There is a fairly set standard for "recreational profile", 40m/130ft max depth without deco. Can be done on a "recreational" single 80 with pink jacket and inflator octopus, or on a "technical" manifolded twin 104 rig with long hose, or a Dolphin SCR with a little bailout tank in a bag or an Ouroboros with advanced gas management and trimix deco computer. I guess it just depends on how you define the dive, the gear, the skills, whatever. Consider it changes a bit, too, no one is gonna call you anything but a recreational diver just because you're diving EAN28 or EAN32 ... anymore.

So do I, but I don't see it necessarily as a marketing ploy. To me, a recreational rebreather is a rebreather that has recreational diving, i.e. diving within those recreational profile limits, as their design envelope. Examples are most aSCR units, the Sport Kiss, Sentinel sport version and Poseidon/Cis-Lunar MK-VI. Never mind that some divers take them past the limits, modify them etc, look at their design.

Well, that's one reason you take a rebreather class. The gases to be used in the rebreather vary from unit to unit (EAN50 for Ray, EAN (32,) 40, 50, and 60 for Dolphin, O2 for CCRs, you get the idea). The nitrox class is a pre-requisite, not the end result of the Rebreather user class. Gotta learn something. What is (or should be ) the end result of the initial user class though is that you're trained and certified to dive the rebreather within those before mentioned recreational limits - 40m max depth, no deco - with the gases it needs to operate. No matter what unit you're diving. Recreational rebreather diving, what else would you like to call it?

Why? Because of the dangers of handling O2?
People fill their cars with gasoline, too.

Elevated O2 translates into shallower depth limit, so less than 40m.
Longer NDLs, so still within that recreational profile framework.

I guess that manufacturers have also come to that conclusion, which I see as the reason for the recent move away from multiple options and required skills and the related features on the rebreather. Instead, bail out to OC and surface. Less skills needed, no options given, try to keep it as simple as possible. No back-up gauges, no manual add valves, just BOVs for the quick switch to OC.

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nigelh

There often seems to be some elitist distinction made that "What we do isn't recreational it is technical".

All my diving is recreational. It is my hobby and I pay for it.
ergo My Inspiration is a recreational rebreather.
If it stopped being fun I wouldn't do it.

In fact a lot of diving that I do, if I risk assessed it and costed it professionally wouldn't get done. (You are going to a well trashed, well documented wreck to mooch about for half an hour and then dangle on a string for an hour and a half and you might (MIGHT?) take some photographs and put them at full res on a public website?)

I would believe that the vast majority of rebreathers sold these days are for recreational use and have to be marketed and serviced as such. Denying they are recreational is like some of the spam I get for V****a Pro. Pro? Who needs that? Ageing porn stars with an RSI? V is a recreational product too.

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nigelh

Nad

It was never sold to military...this is just myth...

Nad

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lizardland

I think the OP meant <40m and no/limited deco by "recreational" as most of the Septic agencies define it as.

Other than as a nice to have gadget, I can't understand why anyone would want the hassle of a rebreather where a cylinder of nitrox could be used. Even just on cost, a CCR dive costs me about £9-15 inc. gas & consumables, not including bailout, maintenance, servicing, depreciation/wear & tear and capital cost. When I can fill my twin 12's for £5 and the kit cost maybe £300 to me I couldn't justify it. After three years of diving a CK I really look forward to the opportunities to dive OC.

Fair enough, if it's someone aspiring to trimix in the same way that an OC diver aspiring to mix will go to a twinset but if all my diving was <40m with 10min of deco max then I wouldn't go near a Rebreather.

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PeteS

Absolutely spot on. All the diving I do, is as far as I can work out, "for my recreation", for "enjoyment".

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Dutchy

My diving is mostly in the 5-15m range. I just love my SK for the absense of noisy bubbles and what that does to the user-experience of observing marine life.

I have no desire to ever exceed the recommended depth of the SK but have it on Tx all the time for super wob and reduced narcosis on incidental deeper dives.

I love this type of diving wether its called techical of recreational well...

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weirdo1

CCR diving is fun, i find it relaxing and just prefere it over OC diving.
Under 15 meters there is not much to see in the Netherlands, so most of my dives are farly shallow, but this isnt stopping me to get on my CCR

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