SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method

Nad · 31st December 2007, 16:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I am taking bets on how many more pages this discussion will go on between Dave and HMC...

$1 / bet closest to the actual post count wins it all... :Wink:

Cheers

Nad

Janos · 31st December 2007, 16:38

Does anyone remember when DIR fundamentalists wouldn't talk about "Ratio deco" or "DOTF" publically on t'internet.

It seems that HMC is the first DIRebreather Fundamentalist!

Janos

**Dave Sutton** · 31st December 2007, 20:12

Friendly advice: I seriously doubt you're gonna get all that much help here... we each get back what we give to the group. Put in and you'll receive. And, for what it's worth... most of us use our names here? We're real people, and we socialize and have real interaction. You might think about that and dump the initials. Unimpressed with the spirit of cooperation shown to date. The copyright stuff is, as was so correctly pointed out, BS.

Back to SCC:

VSC is old news... one that's been tested to death for 10+ years. It works. For a comparison to Cedric's aide-memiore do your own work and let us know how it works out (unless you think it's a trade secret and want to keep it to yourself). And 5 breaths + ATMA might work for deco calculations, but it's darned innefficient at simply keeping the loop in a viable state as far as maintaining "Any PP02 that'll keep you concious" is concerned. I'd think that the latter would be of far more interest... expecially in overhead environments.

Dave

.

**fireman** · 31st December 2007, 21:14

Nothing like a little tussel to end the year. Cedric doesn't know how deep he is so even if the formula is Nobel material, it wouldn't help much.

I was reading several of the Doria books and I had a question, is there the equivalent of the Navy extreme exposure tables but for mixed gas. Or is there a set of tables with no deep stops that work or kinda work for trimix diving.
Regarding Deco, after you have managed to keep breathing till the surface, the next thing to worry about is getting bent. One would want enough info to make the "easy" choices-- the ones that make the biggest reduction in the probability of getting bent.
Ignorance is bliss.
Stay safe, happy new year.

**fireman** · 31st December 2007, 21:57

Hey Dr Mike Chi Sau?

**Dave Sutton** · 31st December 2007, 22:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by fireman)

Nothing like a little tussel to end the year. Cedric doesn't know how deep he is so even if the formula is Nobel material, it wouldn't help much.

Too funny........ Calling Dr Mike... Calling Dr Mike...

If anyone wants to produce something useful, figure out a way to quickly calculate how many breaths to take before venting at any given depth to reduce the PP02 down to 0.20 or so. That's the "Holy Cow, I'm stuck in the wreck and I hope someone frees my sorry ass before I drown" survival mode that I'm most interested in. I'll worry about deco after I'm not worried about drowning. And, to beat a dead horse, it's why I prefer diluents with lots of nice good old fashioned 02 in the mix... as much 02 as is practical based on the depth.

Dave

.

**Dsix36** · 31st December 2007, 22:11

Correct me if I am wrong here, but doesn't any SCR method depend on the divers metabloic rate and thus making the breath/exhale vary from diver to diver?

This thread is causing me great confusion.

Won't the dil mixture change this rate also?

**Dave Sutton** · 31st December 2007, 22:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

Correct me if I am wrong here, but doesn't any SCR method depend on the divers metabloic rate and thus making the breath/exhale vary from diver to diver?

This thread is causing me great confusion.

Won't the dil mixture change this rate also?

Man.... do something about that animated avitar and I'll answer you... it's scaring the kids.....

Dave

**Dsix36** · 31st December 2007, 22:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Man.... do something about that animated avitar and I'll answer you... it's scaring the kids.....

Dave

It scares me too

That's why I have it. Too remind me to be afraid, be very afraid.
Hopefully I will remain humble enough to stay alive.

diverklondike · 31st December 2007, 23:12

To Dave's point, this is all about having lots of ways to get to the surface alive and un-bent regardless of the situation your in...

People that dive with me know that I am very methodical about my planning to come back safe and sound. I am that much more anal about it since much of my wreck diving is solo...

With that having a plan A, B, C & D etc...

That includes an approach to leverage SCR and or VSC if needed.

So what does this have to do with this thread?

** I always carry a set of wet notes with me that have written bailout plans. This includes my approaches for leveraging either a simple SCR or more complex VSC bailout if it is dictated in my personal S#@*() hits the fan plan.

In my mind both have an import placing in bailout planning. As far as Cedric's approach, it sounds like it's simply what his approach to do the same.. Regardless of what you think sounds like a "good idea" I would highly suggest that reguardless of who's approach it is, you better make sure that you PRACTICE it first... What sounds great on paper is many times not as practical as you may think.

Dive Safe...

Mark

31st December 2007, 16:30	#31 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 981	Re: CCR Trimix Simplified by Mel Clark question Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I am taking bets on how many more pages this discussion will go on between Dave and HMC... $1 / bet closest to the actual post count wins it all... :Wink: Cheers Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
(Online)

31st December 2007, 16:38	#32 (permalink)
Janos "Two Sheds" Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: East Surrey Posts: 600	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method Does anyone remember when DIR fundamentalists wouldn't talk about "Ratio deco" or "DOTF" publically on t'internet. It seems that HMC is the first DIRebreather Fundamentalist! Janos __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed
(Offline)

31st December 2007, 20:12	#33 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,689	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method Friendly advice: I seriously doubt you're gonna get all that much help here... we each get back what we give to the group. Put in and you'll receive. And, for what it's worth... most of us use our names here? We're real people, and we socialize and have real interaction. You might think about that and dump the initials. Unimpressed with the spirit of cooperation shown to date. The copyright stuff is, as was so correctly pointed out, BS. Back to SCC: VSC is old news... one that's been tested to death for 10+ years. It works. For a comparison to Cedric's aide-memiore do your own work and let us know how it works out (unless you think it's a trade secret and want to keep it to yourself). And 5 breaths + ATMA might work for deco calculations, but it's darned innefficient at simply keeping the loop in a viable state as far as maintaining "Any PP02 that'll keep you concious" is concerned. I'd think that the latter would be of far more interest... expecially in overhead environments. Dave . __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com Last edited by Dave Sutton : 31st December 2007 at 20:23.
(Online)

31st December 2007, 21:14	#34 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 526	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method Nothing like a little tussel to end the year. Cedric doesn't know how deep he is so even if the formula is Nobel material, it wouldn't help much. I was reading several of the Doria books and I had a question, is there the equivalent of the Navy extreme exposure tables but for mixed gas. Or is there a set of tables with no deep stops that work or kinda work for trimix diving. Regarding Deco, after you have managed to keep breathing till the surface, the next thing to worry about is getting bent. One would want enough info to make the "easy" choices-- the ones that make the biggest reduction in the probability of getting bent. Ignorance is bliss. Stay safe, happy new year. __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
(Offline)

31st December 2007, 21:57	#35 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 526	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method Hey Dr Mike Chi Sau? __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
(Offline)

31st December 2007, 22:04	#36 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,689	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method Quote: (Originally Posted by fireman) Nothing like a little tussel to end the year. Cedric doesn't know how deep he is so even if the formula is Nobel material, it wouldn't help much. Too funny........ Calling Dr Mike... Calling Dr Mike... If anyone wants to produce something useful, figure out a way to quickly calculate how many breaths to take before venting at any given depth to reduce the PP02 down to 0.20 or so. That's the "Holy Cow, I'm stuck in the wreck and I hope someone frees my sorry ass before I drown" survival mode that I'm most interested in. I'll worry about deco after I'm not worried about drowning. And, to beat a dead horse, it's why I prefer diluents with lots of nice good old fashioned 02 in the mix... as much 02 as is practical based on the depth. Dave . __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Online)

31st December 2007, 22:11	#37 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,053	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method Correct me if I am wrong here, but doesn't any SCR method depend on the divers metabloic rate and thus making the breath/exhale vary from diver to diver? This thread is causing me great confusion. Won't the dil mixture change this rate also? __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Online)

31st December 2007, 22:26	#38 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,689	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) Correct me if I am wrong here, but doesn't any SCR method depend on the divers metabloic rate and thus making the breath/exhale vary from diver to diver? This thread is causing me great confusion. Won't the dil mixture change this rate also? Man.... do something about that animated avitar and I'll answer you... it's scaring the kids..... Dave __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Online)

31st December 2007, 22:49	#39 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,053	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Man.... do something about that animated avitar and I'll answer you... it's scaring the kids..... Dave It scares me too That's why I have it. Too remind me to be afraid, be very afraid. Hopefully I will remain humble enough to stay alive. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Online)

31st December 2007, 23:12	#40 (permalink)
diverklondike Just one of the Peasants Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,604	Re: SCR/VSC as a CCR Bailout Method To Dave's point, this is all about having lots of ways to get to the surface alive and un-bent regardless of the situation your in... People that dive with me know that I am very methodical about my planning to come back safe and sound. I am that much more anal about it since much of my wreck diving is solo... With that having a plan A, B, C & D etc... That includes an approach to leverage SCR and or VSC if needed. So what does this have to do with this thread? ** I always carry a set of wet notes with me that have written bailout plans. This includes my approaches for leveraging either a simple SCR or more complex VSC bailout if it is dictated in my personal S#@*() hits the fan plan. In my mind both have an import placing in bailout planning. As far as Cedric's approach, it sounds like it's simply what his approach to do the same.. Regardless of what you think sounds like a "good idea" I would highly suggest that reguardless of who's approach it is, you better make sure that you PRACTICE it first... What sounds great on paper is many times not as practical as you may think. Dive Safe... Mark
(Offline)

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