CCR Trimix Simplified by Mel Clark question

**Dave Sutton** · 28th December 2007, 21:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

This is not directed at you personally or your post but in general I would suggest proper training versus thinking that you can learn what you need to know from a book...

Just my two cents...

M

Mark's right. Dead on in fact. But the books have value too *when used in conjunction with QUALITY training*. At the very least the techniques discussed can be used as a starting point for in depth discussions between student and instructor. I might, for example, disagree with a technique in the book. In discussion with a student, I might use the opportunity to discuss both sides of the coin, and explain why I have made my choices as I have. Even disagreement should lead to healthy discussions. But the books taken "as they are" ought to be taken with a grain of salt and a dose of healthy skepticism.

Dave

diverklondike · 30th December 2007, 21:09

Gang,

I split the SCR VSC bailout conversation into a seperate thread...

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...tml#post159909

Lets please try to keep both on track...

Mark
Rebreather World Staff

Mark Chase · 2nd January 2008, 12:16

Having fiddled around with various options I have concluded that any unexplained elevation of breathing rate should be fixed with immediate bailout to OC. I'd bail to a back up ccr if I had one but for the purpose of this thread ill stick to OC.

My logic is that it is imperative I keep my SAC under control to enable me to complete my deco on my available OC bailout gas. For this reason should i decide to attempt dill flushes or semi closed and this move failed, my SAC would increase significantly. Possibly reaching a point where my OC bailout is now under pressure or totally inadequate.

To reduce SAC you need the max potential for the removal of c02.

OC offers this.

Furthermore, to reduce SAC you need to reduce stress and reduce task loading.

Breathing a known gas which you are 100% confident will be beneficial, will reduce stress. Using a BOV or having at least got past the task loading of switching to OC, your on easy street with task loading.

All good in my book. I cant see a down side.

There is nothing saying once you have got SAC under control and regained your composure you cant have a go at flushing the unit and tentatively going back on loop. Worst that can happen is your sac increased to bailout levels again, but you would be ready for it.

I haven't tried semi closed ascents for a while now but when i did a simulated 90min deco on SC i got a big headache, a very red and sore nose and i felt i was working my lungs too hard.

OK sure, I could be crap at this drill and it may be a lack of skill issue on my side, but in truth apart from instructors, who else out there is all dived up on this skill? I bet most haven't done it since MOD3.

My opinion is, if a bailout drill needs a high skill quotient, then its not as good as a bailout drill that needs no skill at all.

KISS

ATB

Mark

28th December 2007, 21:20	#61 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,689	Re: CCR Trimix Simplified by Mel Clark question Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) This is not directed at you personally or your post but in general I would suggest proper training versus thinking that you can learn what you need to know from a book... Just my two cents... M Mark's right. Dead on in fact. But the books have value too when used in conjunction with QUALITY training. At the very least the techniques discussed can be used as a starting point for in depth discussions between student and instructor. I might, for example, disagree with a technique in the book. In discussion with a student, I might use the opportunity to discuss both sides of the coin, and explain why I have made my choices as I have. Even disagreement should lead to healthy discussions. But the books taken "as they are" ought to be taken with a grain of salt and a dose of healthy skepticism. Dave __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com
(Offline)

30th December 2007, 21:09	#62 (permalink)
diverklondike Just one of the Peasants Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,611	Re: CCR Trimix Simplified by Mel Clark question Gang, I split the SCR VSC bailout conversation into a seperate thread... http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...tml#post159909 Lets please try to keep both on track... Mark Rebreather World Staff
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2nd January 2008, 12:16	#63 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,695	Re: CCR Trimix Simplified by Mel Clark question Having fiddled around with various options I have concluded that any unexplained elevation of breathing rate should be fixed with immediate bailout to OC. I'd bail to a back up ccr if I had one but for the purpose of this thread ill stick to OC. My logic is that it is imperative I keep my SAC under control to enable me to complete my deco on my available OC bailout gas. For this reason should i decide to attempt dill flushes or semi closed and this move failed, my SAC would increase significantly. Possibly reaching a point where my OC bailout is now under pressure or totally inadequate. To reduce SAC you need the max potential for the removal of c02. OC offers this. Furthermore, to reduce SAC you need to reduce stress and reduce task loading. Breathing a known gas which you are 100% confident will be beneficial, will reduce stress. Using a BOV or having at least got past the task loading of switching to OC, your on easy street with task loading. All good in my book. I cant see a down side. There is nothing saying once you have got SAC under control and regained your composure you cant have a go at flushing the unit and tentatively going back on loop. Worst that can happen is your sac increased to bailout levels again, but you would be ready for it. I haven't tried semi closed ascents for a while now but when i did a simulated 90min deco on SC i got a big headache, a very red and sore nose and i felt i was working my lungs too hard. OK sure, I could be crap at this drill and it may be a lack of skill issue on my side, but in truth apart from instructors, who else out there is all dived up on this skill? I bet most haven't done it since MOD3. My opinion is, if a bailout drill needs a high skill quotient, then its not as good as a bailout drill that needs no skill at all. KISS ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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