CCR Cross Over Training

Dutchy · 22nd November 2007, 13:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Here are two good reasons...

1) For the most part when it comes to new units there is a backlog of demand. The net is that there are no new Inspirations/Evolutions, Optimas, Sentinals and or HH CCRs sitting on the shelf waiting for new owners.

2) The MFG's feel it's more important to have proprerly trained divers using their units.

Dive Safe...

Mark

As for reason number 1. Can't argue with that.
As for reason number 2. Gordon didn't require a course but the Jetsam clients seem to do reasonably well when it comes to staying alive. If staying alive isn't directly related to getting trained then I wonder why a manufacturer wants you properly trained. The single one thing I can come up with is the litigation crazy society....But Europe isn't like that (yet?).

Never mind it started as a series of retorical questions and I allowed myself to just write part of that down... Bottom line is I would like to see good formal training on principles (be it SCR, mCCR or eCCR) and simple packages on top of it to familiarize one with vendor/type specifics....

***Decodiver*** · 22nd November 2007, 14:43

Jetsam now requires you to get training.

That is why you get the unit, but the instructor gets the MAV.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Dutchy · 22nd November 2007, 15:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Jetsam now requires you to get training.

That is why you get the unit, but the instructor gets the MAV.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Several units were sold to divers without "proper" training and some more were transferred to new owners without training. That's why my sentence was in the past tense. The argument still holds. But hey let's not do more

.... The request for just RELEVANT training remains unchanged.

***jradomski*** · 22nd November 2007, 16:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy)

Several units were sold to divers without "proper" training and some more were transferred to new owners without training. That's why my sentence was in the past tense. The argument still holds. But hey let's not do more

.... The request for just RELEVANT training remains unchanged.

also remember all the original units were sold as PARTS kits.. nothing was assembled.. It was up to the end purchaser to assemble everything into a working rig..

Dutchy · 22nd November 2007, 16:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

also remember all the original units were sold as PARTS kits.. nothing was assembled.. It was up to the end purchaser to assemble everything into a working rig..

I'm curious as to what that implies. You don't mean to say that one needs no water skills because if you can assemble it you can successfully dive it ? or do you ?

Dutchy · 22nd November 2007, 16:33

Sorry the temptation was to big. I was trying to make a point and all everyone responds to are the examples I use to make a point instead of the point itself.
In order to make it clear I'll use caps this time
CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A MODULAR TRAINING SYSTEM INSTEAD OF HAVING TO START OVER AGAIN WHEN BUYING A NEAR IDENTICAL BREATHER?

RAL · 22nd November 2007, 16:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy)

Sorry the temptation was to big. I was trying to make a point and all everyone responds to are the examples I use to make a point instead of the point itself.
In order to make it clear I'll use caps this time
CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A MODULAR TRAINING SYSTEM INSTEAD OF HAVING TO START OVER AGAIN WHEN BUYING A NEAR IDENTICAL BREATHER?

Your point is very clear. The problem is it makes too much sense.

RAL

***jradomski*** · 22nd November 2007, 16:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy)

I'm curious as to what that implies. You don't mean to say that one needs no water skills because if you can assemble it you can successfully dive it ? or do you ?

No I'm not implying that.. The original KISS was not sold as a complete rebreather.. it was simply a collection of parts.. The purchaser did what they wanted with them.. Also at that time there was no training available either.. MY interpretation was that it was sold as a homebuilder kit, sort of like the earliest computers... not meant to be a "finished" product..

Dutchy · 22nd November 2007, 16:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

No I'm not implying that.. The original KISS was not sold as a complete rebreather.. it was simply a collection of parts.. The purchaser did what they wanted with them.. Also at that time there was no training available either.. MY interpretation was that it was sold as a homebuilder kit, sort of like the earliest computers... not meant to be a "finished" product..

Just yanking your chain...The big grin icon should have given it away. The question in the next serious post however remains unchanged...

Mixaddict · 22nd November 2007, 18:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy)

Sorry the temptation was to big. I was trying to make a point and all everyone responds to are the examples I use to make a point instead of the point itself.
In order to make it clear I'll use caps this time
CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A MODULAR TRAINING SYSTEM INSTEAD OF HAVING TO START OVER AGAIN WHEN BUYING A NEAR IDENTICAL BREATHER?

Having just spoke to the TDI folks at DEMA a few weeks ago, this is exactly the direction they are headed with their CCR training programs. It will be very interesting to see when they are complete and availalble. I agree completely with you on this issue. A modular training system only makes sense in today's environment.

22nd November 2007, 13:07	#41 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 770	Re: HammerHead CCR Training Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) Here are two good reasons... 1) For the most part when it comes to new units there is a backlog of demand. The net is that there are no new Inspirations/Evolutions, Optimas, Sentinals and or HH CCRs sitting on the shelf waiting for new owners. 2) The MFG's feel it's more important to have proprerly trained divers using their units. Dive Safe... Mark As for reason number 1. Can't argue with that. As for reason number 2. Gordon didn't require a course but the Jetsam clients seem to do reasonably well when it comes to staying alive. If staying alive isn't directly related to getting trained then I wonder why a manufacturer wants you properly trained. The single one thing I can come up with is the litigation crazy society....But Europe isn't like that (yet?). Never mind it started as a series of retorical questions and I allowed myself to just write part of that down... Bottom line is I would like to see good formal training on principles (be it SCR, mCCR or eCCR) and simple packages on top of it to familiarize one with vendor/type specifics.... __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 14:43	#42 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,181	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Jetsam now requires you to get training. That is why you get the unit, but the instructor gets the MAV. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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22nd November 2007, 15:07	#43 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 770	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Jetsam now requires you to get training. That is why you get the unit, but the instructor gets the MAV. Cheers, Dave Cooper. Several units were sold to divers without "proper" training and some more were transferred to new owners without training. That's why my sentence was in the past tense. The argument still holds. But hey let's not do more .... The request for just RELEVANT training remains unchanged. __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:08	#44 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,009	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy) Several units were sold to divers without "proper" training and some more were transferred to new owners without training. That's why my sentence was in the past tense. The argument still holds. But hey let's not do more .... The request for just RELEVANT training remains unchanged. also remember all the original units were sold as PARTS kits.. nothing was assembled.. It was up to the end purchaser to assemble everything into a working rig.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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22nd November 2007, 16:29	#45 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 770	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) also remember all the original units were sold as PARTS kits.. nothing was assembled.. It was up to the end purchaser to assemble everything into a working rig.. I'm curious as to what that implies. You don't mean to say that one needs no water skills because if you can assemble it you can successfully dive it ? or do you ? __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:33	#46 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 770	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Sorry the temptation was to big. I was trying to make a point and all everyone responds to are the examples I use to make a point instead of the point itself. In order to make it clear I'll use caps this time CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A MODULAR TRAINING SYSTEM INSTEAD OF HAVING TO START OVER AGAIN WHEN BUYING A NEAR IDENTICAL BREATHER? __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:36	#47 (permalink)
RAL Longbottom Time Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Florida Posts: 390	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy) Sorry the temptation was to big. I was trying to make a point and all everyone responds to are the examples I use to make a point instead of the point itself. In order to make it clear I'll use caps this time CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A MODULAR TRAINING SYSTEM INSTEAD OF HAVING TO START OVER AGAIN WHEN BUYING A NEAR IDENTICAL BREATHER? Your point is very clear. The problem is it makes too much sense. RAL __________________ The sea does not care about you.
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:40	#48 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,009	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy) I'm curious as to what that implies. You don't mean to say that one needs no water skills because if you can assemble it you can successfully dive it ? or do you ? No I'm not implying that.. The original KISS was not sold as a complete rebreather.. it was simply a collection of parts.. The purchaser did what they wanted with them.. Also at that time there was no training available either.. MY interpretation was that it was sold as a homebuilder kit, sort of like the earliest computers... not meant to be a "finished" product.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 16:50	#49 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 770	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) No I'm not implying that.. The original KISS was not sold as a complete rebreather.. it was simply a collection of parts.. The purchaser did what they wanted with them.. Also at that time there was no training available either.. MY interpretation was that it was sold as a homebuilder kit, sort of like the earliest computers... not meant to be a "finished" product.. Just yanking your chain...The big grin icon should have given it away. The question in the next serious post however remains unchanged... __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
(Online)

22nd November 2007, 18:13	#50 (permalink)
Mixaddict Always Learning! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Draper, Utah USA Posts: 476	Re: CCR Cross Over Training Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy) Sorry the temptation was to big. I was trying to make a point and all everyone responds to are the examples I use to make a point instead of the point itself. In order to make it clear I'll use caps this time CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A MODULAR TRAINING SYSTEM INSTEAD OF HAVING TO START OVER AGAIN WHEN BUYING A NEAR IDENTICAL BREATHER? Having just spoke to the TDI folks at DEMA a few weeks ago, this is exactly the direction they are headed with their CCR training programs. It will be very interesting to see when they are complete and availalble. I agree completely with you on this issue. A modular training system only makes sense in today's environment. __________________ Randy Thornton (MixAddict) Inspiration, Evolution,Hammerhead & Sentinel CCR Instructor
(Online)

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