RAID Training Agency (?)

O.C.Diver

In the USA RAID is a popular brand of insecticides. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's real smart to use a name synonymous with toxic gas in a can for a Rebreather training agency.

Hope their training program is better conceived.

Ted

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Consider this my opinion.......sometimes I'm even right, but remember.........YMMV.

Ted Green
Charter Boat "OC Diver"
http://www.ocdiver.com

Bobnob

l like this lot ,

The Deco Stop

caveseeker7

Indeed, the "Florida Underwater Cave Education and Marineexploration" is a truly worthwhile endeavor.

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Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

Freef

Rebreather's from day one? Why not? Longer bottom times, less deco, less kit to lug around, isn't that why people do MOD 1 anyway?

So why not just teach Rebreather's anyway? Putting the tanks on OC gear the wrong way around is hardly the end of the world as when you go to put the regs on you realise your mistake anyway, in the same way that a RB assembly cockup is found in pre dive checks.

That's how an agency will look at it.

How I look at it:

Joe Blogs is in his forties, has a bit of money to spend and wants to have a thrilling hobby and hears this diving lark is quite good.

So he signs up for the OW course, and as soon as anything remotely like physics or mental arithmetic comes up he is like the rabbit in the headlights as he hasn't done any serious maths since leaving school. That's OK though as the instructor eventually gets him through thtables side and he passes his course. He then dives 5-10 times a year on holiday.

Imagine the same bloke on a Rebreather:

"A bit worried about tables" gets interesting when you add in pO2, MOD, END and the rest.

"Diving 5-10 times a year" spells trouble on a rebreather, more so than OC as there is more to go wrong, and you need more skills to survive.

I'm not aware of anyone that teaches nitrox from day 1, although that has been suggested for years. The people doing an OW rebreather course will fall into one of a few catagories:

People with a lot of cash who like expensive toys.

Glory boys [usually boys, not girls] who want the danger.

Fashion victims that want the latest flash gear.

And once in a blue moon, a careful, responsible non diver who will make an excellent Rebreather-er.

The OW course is an introduction to diving, at the end of it you are qualified to 18/20m [agency and equivalent to OW ticket dependant] so you can build your experience and advance if you want.

You can also buy your kit in stages, a few £10 notes here and there before a major purchase.

I like the idea of the $100 to register for an online course. Anyone who doesn't complete it because of difficulties understanding the theory will either drop out [$100 isn't a lot to some people] or call [a premium rate number?] the agency for help.

I wish I had thought of that.

With the right attitude I think that a non diver could be turned into a Rebreather diver without going OC. But I would bet that 99% of those people with that attitude would go OC first anyway.

__________________
David.

Currently owner of two differently sized ankles.

Freef

PS, on here RAID is the Rebreather Accident / Incident Database...

__________________
David.

Currently owner of two differently sized ankles.

Ferg3333

Hi Freef,

The only agnecy I know that gives a FULL nitrox cert i.e. upto 40% is IANTD OW Eanx Diver (Although this down to what the student wants). I have successfully taught this to students, although it does take a little more time, and tbh they were studying science at university.

You can also do IANTD Open Water Rebreather Diver, from day one but I have never heard of anyone doing this course. The limits are similar to OW course max depth 21m etc.

But the likely hood of people joining a club and moving straight onto ccr is slim, as who wants to shell out $$$$ for a ccr when they can shell out only $$$ learning to dive oc. Then when they are at stage to move to ccr they can.

Just my thoughts

Ferg

divingtoors

Hi

I cannot agree with Ferg on this matter.

I am looking at the "IANTD" MOD1 manual, and the prerequisites for a Rebreather diver course is found on page 1, just after the hords of forms that need to be completed to waive any Liability for accidents.

It clearly states the following:
Prerequisites: Rebreather experience: Certified Open Water + at least 10 logged dives.
Prerequisites: Rebreather diver: Advanced Nitrox and 50 logged dives.

Therefore, unless there has been an amendment to the IANTD MOD1 prerequisites that have not been published, all the instructors teaching Rebreather diving + OW as a combined course, are breaking agency standards, if done under the specific agency's "banner". (No intent for agency bashing please...)

This act in itself is reason for immediate expulsion from the agency as an instructor, as also clearly stated in the Instructor training manual.
This brings us back to a interresting earlier thread on upholding and policing agency standards.

My 2c worth.

Regards

Johan

__________________
"..Recreational scuba training has developed the denial of risk into an art form...."
( Larry "Harris" Taylor, Ph.D.)

"The closer you are to danger, the further you are from harm" - Pippin Took (Hobbit)

Devils Advocate

The guys from RAID were canvasing all the agencies at DEMA to get them to join in with the organisation. I spent a good half hour listening to their speel on what they wanted. Each agency could have their own standards on the RAID website so a person signing up for the course would pick an agency and do the RAID on line Rebreather course and then go off to their Instructor to do the OW dives on the unit.
The biggest problem we saw was that RAID decided on the criteria that each rebreather has to have in order to be accepted. The only rebreather that met the criteria was the Poseidon/Cis!! Go figure. During the course of the week the new Sentinel was accepted as well.
I cannot remember the exact specifications that each rebreather must meet in order to be accepted, but it was way off the mark IMHO.
I do know certain agency members and Rebreather manufacturers got together to discuss RAID and the basic outcome was that they were another agency who were only their to support the Cis.
Maybe i have a biased view, but it wont be a part of my training programme.

Regards
Aaron.

db8us

RAID in the IT field is a redundant Array of Inexpensive disks

Maybe this translates here to redunant bunch of cheap divingdudes??

I strongly believe in the concept of learning to walk first before starting to run, so i am not a fan of this rebreather-from-the-beginning-stuff....

Regards

Michael

Lab Rat

Hey guys, it's all OK...I stopped by the Poseidon/Cis booth at DEMA and they told me they had designed the Rebreather for the entry market and that it did everything for the diver (incl pos/neg checks) so that the diver didn't have to worry about those things...

It's all going to be OK, just make sure the light is "green".

God help us all...the "dumb down the class and avoid that pesky experience thing" may well be the downfall of civilization as we know it for all I can tell.

OR...perhaps it is just Sir Darwin looking to help us with the global population problem...hard to tell

Richard