Training agencies not policing their instructors

montyg

Dr Mike said:

"Clearly (and this has been proven to me over and over again) we cant rely on the training agencies to police their instructors."

Isn't this a sad indictment?

I have arrived at the same conclusion, and I fear that divers will get hurt because of this, and that our excuse of self-regulation is not going to cut the mustard for much longer.

It seems inevitable that governments will interfere, and that will not necessarily make anything better.

We really should get our act together, and the sooner the better.

rgds
monty

Abbo

Governments spend billions of dollars on teachers' salaries, but have yet to find a way of defining what is a bad teacher - or a good one. It's very hard to know whether the problem is the workman or the cloth. The attempts to pay teachers according to exam results have run into all kinds of troubles, not least of which being teachers invigilating exams helping their students to cheat. Unlike governments, training agencies have a business to run, and students getting failed in exams are bad for that business: the problem for them is far harder than for governments, which don't have to make a profit - and agencies have far fewer resources to police the problem.

At the end of a course, you have to ask yourself whether you are worth the qualification you have just received. Some agencies ask you to sign a form that says you believe you are safe using the rebreather you have just qualified on, without supervision. If you're honest with yourself you don't feel very safe at first: I certainly didn't. It would really help if someone, like RBW, put together a generic list of things you should be able to do at the end of the course. If you don't feel you can do those things you have a duty to yourself to go find another teacher and do a brush-up course or a whole new course from the beginning: after all, it's your life you're talking about. The rebreather community is never going to be able to control agencies' training policies, but it can help advising recent graduates what they need to know to have a fair chance of diving a rebreather without becoming a tragic statistic.

At least as important is maintaining those skills. Servicemen are required, once a year, to do a Battle Fitness Test. Perhaps clubs should introduce a BFT for divers: a bunch of skills that divers demonstrate once a year to assure themselves and their oppos that they have the skills to be safe to dive with. Anyone?

caveseeker7

There are huge differences between the agencies, that is for certain.
In some the monkey business comes from the top.
And Rebreather manufacturers have responded in the past, by not allowing the agencies
to make ITs and even instructors without review and not accepting
instructors/ITs just because someone issued a card to them.
Steam Machines and Innerspace are examples here.

On the other hand some agencies take any complaint seriously and take care of problems
almost immediately. HQ coming down on the instructor, reviewing his classes,
fixing the problem.
ANDI is the example here. the standards are not much different than some of the others,
the importance given to them is. Same goes for their gas purity standards.

Training is a very serious issue, and some agencies as well as some manufacturers
are fully aware of it and handle it accordingly.

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Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

Freef

If you want to comment on a PADI instructor [Ray & Dolphin can be taught by PADI] then you need the instructors full name and, where possible, number. Without these they WILL NOT action any complaints.

I overheard another PADI instructor blatantly telling his OW class the wrong thing, and I contacted Bristol to see if they would question anyone passing on that particular day in the SE of England, and they weren't interested.

So a class got badly taught and PADI didn't give a flying snorkel.

I then told PADI that I would no longer teach for them and instructed them to cancel my membership immediately. I had standards as an instructor, and if the organisation I qualified with are prepared to have lower ones then I won't teach for them.

Diving is a bloody dangerous sport, if the agencies won't police it then bad training will happen.

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David.

Diving the mahogany rebreather.

Freef

I regulary practice OOA drills when I dive OC, and I have surprised a CCR buddy who told me that her hubby has cue cards for her [high pO2, low pO2 etc] that he throws at her during a dive by giving her a drill to do. Practice of skills is important, and since I stopped teaching I do it when I get the chance as if I don't I'll feel rusty.

The thing is what set of kit do you do skills on? If your club is mainly OC do you just do OC skills? Or only Rebreather skills?

PADI's 'Scuba Review' could be a starting point as it has 18 [20 now I think] skills that are done for divers that have had a fallow period.

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David.

Diving the mahogany rebreather.

Dsix36

Kuddos to you man! Have some green!
I wish all of the dive instructors had as much backbone. Maybe the agencies would tighten things up and make it safer for all of us.

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THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!

CCR-Wrecker

It's a nice thought but, I fear the agency would find another to fill the vacancy. When they did fill the spot, I'd think it likely the successor would be less qualifed.

I teach OC trimix. My simple criteria for "pass or fail" is : would I trust the prospective diver to take my daughter diving? a friend? my wife...wait scratch that

Andy

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"I know what you'll find, it's in your mind, it's what you want to see..." Ozzy

sadave

Great post Abbo, well said.

Trouble I've seen here in Australia, it seems the norm that if the agency your involved with won't let you do whatever it is you want (PADI DM who hasn't been insured / renewed for 5 years wants to be a rebreather instructor on a unit he's dived once? Take someone from an OC instructor, to Inspo diver, to Inspo instructor in a week?) then all you have to to is find another agency that lets you do what you want to do.... It's just a case of shopping around, there are plenty of agencies out there, one of them will let you do what you want...

Without going into restriction of trade issues, my personal feeling is that the dive industry as a whole should get together and organise a set of minimum standards for each course, that everyone must follow... trouble is, policing it, how would you manage a black-ban on a certain agency?

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Dsix36

As much as I hate to admit it, You are most likely correct. I still admire Freef for taking the stand though.

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THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!

Dsix36

I would vote for that in a heartbeat. I am IANTD certified and still trying to figure out what Mod1, Mod2, Mod3 etc. are

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THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!