Ongoing Skills Training / Proposal

***schford*** · 3rd September 2005, 02:51

Right I need your advice guys - I have an idea and I think it is something that might help us all dive safer.

We all learn skills when we do our courses be it basic / trimix / cave / wreck etc but how many of us practise them in a controlled way so we steadily improve over time?

Now I know some of you guys do but I bet a bunch of you are a bit like me and just dive as you love diving.

Well I have this idea for RBW, that we create in our Library, skills training cards and get input from our knowledgable members to enable us to have little cards to laminate with how do I? .... to practise skills. Then we use RBW to get a bunch of RBW divers in our locality together to practise some skillls. We print the cards and take em to an organisied dive to practise the skills in a safe and controlled enviroment.

I am thinking that we get some one knowledgable to put together a first draft, we then get some peer review and produce it in a format that we can print laminate and take diving to continue our onward training.

Some of my first ideas include:

Weighting
Rescue Skills (inc recovery of a breathing but uncosious diver form depth)
Horizontal Hover / Kick / Ascend staying horizontal
Bail out procedures
SCR / Open Loop
Boom scenario handling
Minimum Loop Voiume Management during Ascent
Work out of bailout and test bailout
Stressed enviroments and how we handle them

etc etc

Now if we have a favourable response on this I will organise the first couple with some of you guys to test out, if you are interested in volunteering to write one please let me know.

Stuart

aquaxel · 3rd September 2005, 03:58

excellent idea.

mayb could be done like a checklist system, to do skills - lets say - once or twice a month.

i will introduce a regular skill practice day here in cyprus...

tecdivertraining · 3rd September 2005, 04:29

Hi Stuart

Sounds like a good idea.

One thing I find works well when I teach CCR courses is signs and symptoms que cards instead of the usual high and low oxygen styled ques this way it gets the diver thinking about the problem and possible causes eg, your lips are twitching, you cannot feel your legs, you have a headace signs and symptoms of oxygen toxicity and Hypercapnia.

I belive all students should continue on practicing the skills learnt on thier tranning and mastering new skills relevent to the kind of diving.

Here are a few I teach additional to the course outlines you may wish to include.

Rebreather buddy breathing.
Dilluent flush using the adv
OC breathing from the ADV
SMB deployment venting gas from the mouth piece

I also belive it good practice for divers to be very comfortable in removing and replacing the unit both on the surface and underwater as you never know when you may have to, how many guys and girls practice this? most divers find it difficult and many have never done the skill even during training.

hope this practical excersise goes well I believe it will be benificial for the divers who take part.

Happy days

decoweenie · 3rd September 2005, 05:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

...removing and replacing the unit both on the surface and underwater...

Keep in mind that diving in coldwater with drysuit and thick undersuit, this skill will be a lot more tricky than with a lycra/wetsuit in tropical environment.

If you don't have adequate weight on your body and use the rig as part of your buoyancy (i.e. I don't wear weight belt even with drysuit, for example), this skill will be next to impossible.

Stuart, since some of the skills mentioned on your list involved manipulation of the working unit, I suggest that something like a waiver form is included. I know it might be over-cautious and the UK is not US (i.e. infested with ambulance-chasing lawyers) but one never know how the family of the diver might react if something happens. Insurance won't hurt either...

My original technical training was pretty "tough" with everything is fair game and could fail all together at the same time type of training. And I love it since it pushed me very hard. However, I believe now the same training is done by mostly "simulated failures" and the instructors do not even touch the students gear. Flash card training is good, but having to diagnose and correct a REAL failure or you "die" is another level.

wizbang · 3rd September 2005, 07:48

A great idea Schford. I am happy to help in anyway needed.

***Louby Lou*** · 3rd September 2005, 09:01

Great idea Stuart

Especially would be help for a

like me; although alot of my time spent in the water is skills, skills and more skills... as well as bimbling along.

We're just reinforcing my course at the moment, but I could easily see that with the hours picking up and the increasing number of dives on the unit, there will be less time spent on skills and more time 'playing'

Things like que cards etc would be a great idea, even at the end of even a short, shallow dive, sitting in say 3-6m just going through basic drills is going to be of benefit

Although, I can not contribute to the actual cards etc... I am more than happy to work through the basic newbie ones if anyone would like me too

***Decodiver*** · 3rd September 2005, 11:12

Dear All,

Whilst I for one always reiterate the benefit of skills, they are only of benefit when repeated regularly.

I tell all my students that they should be practising skills on every dive.

Whether this be high O2, low O2, manual running of the unit, bailing out/in etc is down to them.

But what they must ensure is that they can react instantaneously, to a given problem, from motor memory.

If your solenoid jams open at 90 metres (giving you an almost instantaneous PPO2 of 10, yes ten bar) you need to be able to isolate, flush, recover buoyancy and get back on the loop calmly, smoothly and without pausing to think what you should do.

Already this year, I know of one experienced CCR diver, who is believed to have hit the surface from 60 metres, due to a buoyancy problem, suffering a spinal bend.

I tell my students to constantly touch their kit under water, let your hands go to your drysuit disconnector, your wing disconnector, your cylinder valves, your bailout regs, without looking and repeat infinitum. That way when you need them your hands will go straight there with no faffing about.

Stuart hit the nail on the head, admitting he needs to do skills, I am sure others do too.

However, if one of my certified students needed to read a card before knowing how to properly perform an underwater skill, then IMHO they have missed the point completely, they should be 100% competent and confident in their ability to dive CCR, and the only way to do that is to do skills on every dive.

I practise skills on all of my dives, whether teaching or exploring, it keeps me sharp and better prepared to deal with eventualities.

Just my tuppence worth.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper

***EBT*** · 3rd September 2005, 11:28

wtf is a "boom" scenario... I swear you lot just like making up new acronyms so you can claim their creation. Next you know someone will make up the BOV... oh... you have!

decoweenie · 3rd September 2005, 11:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel)

wtf is a "boom" scenario...

You didn't do the BOOM skill and passed your CCR course ?

Uuuh, this is my "666" post. How cool...

***EBT*** · 3rd September 2005, 11:39

Whats a CCR?

Yak.

3rd September 2005, 02:51	#1 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Ongoing Skills Training / Proposal Right I need your advice guys - I have an idea and I think it is something that might help us all dive safer. We all learn skills when we do our courses be it basic / trimix / cave / wreck etc but how many of us practise them in a controlled way so we steadily improve over time? Now I know some of you guys do but I bet a bunch of you are a bit like me and just dive as you love diving. Well I have this idea for RBW, that we create in our Library, skills training cards and get input from our knowledgable members to enable us to have little cards to laminate with how do I? .... to practise skills. Then we use RBW to get a bunch of RBW divers in our locality together to practise some skillls. We print the cards and take em to an organisied dive to practise the skills in a safe and controlled enviroment. I am thinking that we get some one knowledgable to put together a first draft, we then get some peer review and produce it in a format that we can print laminate and take diving to continue our onward training. Some of my first ideas include: Weighting Rescue Skills (inc recovery of a breathing but uncosious diver form depth) Horizontal Hover / Kick / Ascend staying horizontal Bail out procedures SCR / Open Loop Boom scenario handling Minimum Loop Voiume Management during Ascent Work out of bailout and test bailout Stressed enviroments and how we handle them etc etc Now if we have a favourable response on this I will organise the first couple with some of you guys to test out, if you are interested in volunteering to write one please let me know. Stuart
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3rd September 2005, 03:58	#2 (permalink)
aquaxel aquanaut Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: cyprus Posts: 530	excellent idea. mayb could be done like a checklist system, to do skills - lets say - once or twice a month. i will introduce a regular skill practice day here in cyprus... __________________ rgds aquaxel www.aquatec-innerspace.com
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3rd September 2005, 04:29	#3 (permalink)
tecdivertraining EXPLORER Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 531	Hi Stuart Sounds like a good idea. One thing I find works well when I teach CCR courses is signs and symptoms que cards instead of the usual high and low oxygen styled ques this way it gets the diver thinking about the problem and possible causes eg, your lips are twitching, you cannot feel your legs, you have a headace signs and symptoms of oxygen toxicity and Hypercapnia. I belive all students should continue on practicing the skills learnt on thier tranning and mastering new skills relevent to the kind of diving. Here are a few I teach additional to the course outlines you may wish to include. Rebreather buddy breathing. Dilluent flush using the adv OC breathing from the ADV SMB deployment venting gas from the mouth piece I also belive it good practice for divers to be very comfortable in removing and replacing the unit both on the surface and underwater as you never know when you may have to, how many guys and girls practice this? most divers find it difficult and many have never done the skill even during training. hope this practical excersise goes well I believe it will be benificial for the divers who take part. Happy days __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
(Online)

3rd September 2005, 05:30	#4 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) ...removing and replacing the unit both on the surface and underwater... Keep in mind that diving in coldwater with drysuit and thick undersuit, this skill will be a lot more tricky than with a lycra/wetsuit in tropical environment. If you don't have adequate weight on your body and use the rig as part of your buoyancy (i.e. I don't wear weight belt even with drysuit, for example), this skill will be next to impossible. Stuart, since some of the skills mentioned on your list involved manipulation of the working unit, I suggest that something like a waiver form is included. I know it might be over-cautious and the UK is not US (i.e. infested with ambulance-chasing lawyers) but one never know how the family of the diver might react if something happens. Insurance won't hurt either... My original technical training was pretty "tough" with everything is fair game and could fail all together at the same time type of training. And I love it since it pushed me very hard. However, I believe now the same training is done by mostly "simulated failures" and the instructors do not even touch the students gear. Flash card training is good, but having to diagnose and correct a REAL failure or you "die" is another level. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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3rd September 2005, 07:48	#5 (permalink)
wizbang WEB MERMEN Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Vision Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth Australia Posts: 386	A great idea Schford. I am happy to help in anyway needed.
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3rd September 2005, 09:01	#6 (permalink)
*Louby Lou* XLVI WC! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Roman Corinium! Posts: 1,049	Great idea Stuart Especially would be help for a like me; although alot of my time spent in the water is skills, skills and more skills... as well as bimbling along. We're just reinforcing my course at the moment, but I could easily see that with the hours picking up and the increasing number of dives on the unit, there will be less time spent on skills and more time 'playing' Things like que cards etc would be a great idea, even at the end of even a short, shallow dive, sitting in say 3-6m just going through basic drills is going to be of benefit Although, I can not contribute to the actual cards etc... I am more than happy to work through the basic newbie ones if anyone would like me too __________________ Miss Lou x Use of RBW is subject to the Rebreatherworld Terms and Conditions - Please read! Outlaw Divers - Sssh we're diving! You heff vays uff dealink vis zem, oh Miss RBW Admin! - Rob Davie Feb 06
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3rd September 2005, 11:12	#7 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,194	Dear All, Whilst I for one always reiterate the benefit of skills, they are only of benefit when repeated regularly. I tell all my students that they should be practising skills on every dive. Whether this be high O2, low O2, manual running of the unit, bailing out/in etc is down to them. But what they must ensure is that they can react instantaneously, to a given problem, from motor memory. If your solenoid jams open at 90 metres (giving you an almost instantaneous PPO2 of 10, yes ten bar) you need to be able to isolate, flush, recover buoyancy and get back on the loop calmly, smoothly and without pausing to think what you should do. Already this year, I know of one experienced CCR diver, who is believed to have hit the surface from 60 metres, due to a buoyancy problem, suffering a spinal bend. I tell my students to constantly touch their kit under water, let your hands go to your drysuit disconnector, your wing disconnector, your cylinder valves, your bailout regs, without looking and repeat infinitum. That way when you need them your hands will go straight there with no faffing about. Stuart hit the nail on the head, admitting he needs to do skills, I am sure others do too. However, if one of my certified students needed to read a card before knowing how to properly perform an underwater skill, then IMHO they have missed the point completely, they should be 100% competent and confident in their ability to dive CCR, and the only way to do that is to do skills on every dive. I practise skills on all of my dives, whether teaching or exploring, it keeps me sharp and better prepared to deal with eventualities. Just my tuppence worth. Cheers, Dave Cooper __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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3rd September 2005, 11:28	#8 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,105	wtf is a "boom" scenario... I swear you lot just like making up new acronyms so you can claim their creation. Next you know someone will make up the BOV... oh... you have! __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
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3rd September 2005, 11:35	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel) wtf is a "boom" scenario... You didn't do the BOOM skill and passed your CCR course ? Uuuh, this is my "666" post. How cool... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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3rd September 2005, 11:39	#10 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,105	Whats a CCR? Yak. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
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