Ongoing Skills Training / Proposal

Mark Chase · 3rd September 2005, 11:43

Touch skills are very important and my most practiced thing. When I was in the earley days of CCR diving I was so focused on flying the unit I was a bit shocked when i came to grab a bailout reg and couldent locate the damed thing. I almost stuck a high presure gauge in my gob by mistake

ATB

Mark Chase

Fellow WTF is a Boom Drill?? diver

***EBT*** · 3rd September 2005, 11:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Keep in mind that diving in coldwater with drysuit and thick undersuit, this skill will be a lot more tricky than with a lycra/wetsuit in tropical environment.

If you don't have adequate weight on your body and use the rig as part of your buoyancy (i.e. I don't wear weight belt even with drysuit, for example), this skill will be next to impossible.

Me either, but I had to take my rig off to get out of a cave in france.... its a worthwhile skill.

decoweenie · 3rd September 2005, 12:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel)

Me either, but I had to take my rig off to get out of a cave in france.... its a worthwhile skill.

I guess taking the rig off at the entrance of Fountaine de Truffe is a little bit different than in OW or inside a room in a wreck.

***schford*** · 3rd September 2005, 13:03

Boom Scenario = somethign goes boom! Either Internal or External. I am sur eyou have all practiced it but you call it comething different.

Stuart

***schford*** · 3rd September 2005, 13:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

However, if one of my certified students needed to read a card before knowing how to properly perform an underwater skill, then IMHO they have missed the point completely, they should be 100% competent and confident in their ability to dive CCR, and the only way to do that is to do skills on every dive.

Perhaps I was not very clear in fact I wasn't - I envisage the cards not only having the basics of the skill on them but also acting as a prop to encourage regular skills development. Perhaps with a suggested order on them or a laminated spot where you safety diver rights down how long it takes to perform the skill so you can see a measurable benefit over time.

Some skills can not be practised every dive - they need to be practiced in a controlled planned enviroment eg, full bailout, SAC rate testing under stress or rescue of unconcious diver. These cards and the planning around them would enable us all to benefit.

***EBT*** · 3rd September 2005, 13:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

Boom Scenario = somethign goes boom! Either Internal or External. I am sur eyou have all practiced it but you call it comething different.

Stuart

I've had a few internal booms, normally put it down to the curry though

PeteS · 3rd September 2005, 21:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Fellow WTF is a Boom Drill?? diver

Go on then, I'll join in with wtf is a boom drill?

A drill that makes holes in booms? They'd sink.

As the great Janet says, "sometimes you lot talk in code......."

***Decodiver*** · 3rd September 2005, 22:11

Boom drill.

Where you hear an unexpected 'Boom' underwater and the drill you then undertake to find out which of your hoses has exploded!

No different from OC really, shut down, check gauges, check PPO2 etc etc.

That or it is some Brummie bum bandit skill

Oops!

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

**mattmexico** · 9th September 2005, 18:52

Yo

To make the student do the drills during class is relativly easy. To make them go on with it after the course is a different matter and somewaht connected to the mental outlook of the student. I wish I could say that all my students are practicing after the course as I have told them a dozen times.

I try to make them understand that poorly learned survival skills go first and if you don't want to survive in a shit storm you probably won't. I would think that most students get that but out of experience I am looking at a much more bleack reality.

Say getting a cave student back after 6 month and try to do a follow line, zero viz sharing gas exit might be only marginally survivable. Or getting a ccr student back after 6 month and he needs a refresher and I hold up the card saying hyperoxic drill, please react and then look on how they struggle along, and we are just in 15 feet / 4.5 meters with openwater on top of us is bringing up sad feelings of failure, my failure.

Did I fail to implemet in my student the feeling of urgency and need of repetition when talking about emergency drills or does my student not care for his or her safety, and potentially the safety of a team surounding them ?. I don't know. I fear the day when my students name is showing up in statistics, due to a silly error or obmitting safe ccr diving practices.

The IANTD CCR Instructor submersible tables / charts helped me getting the student into a routine and I recommend to my students to get a set so they have something they can orient themselfes to when practicing emergency drills after the course.

Matt
www.protecdiving.com

RonMicjan · 29th August 2006, 08:30

well strangely enough, I just wrote the definitive discourse on what a boom really is and how to recover from it and I did it before i read this thread, weird and Phi's 666th post is on this thread too, better go buy a lottery ticket tomorrow.

great idea stuart!!

3rd September 2005, 11:43	#11 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,856	Touch skills are very important and my most practiced thing. When I was in the earley days of CCR diving I was so focused on flying the unit I was a bit shocked when i came to grab a bailout reg and couldent locate the damed thing. I almost stuck a high presure gauge in my gob by mistake ATB Mark Chase Fellow WTF is a Boom Drill?? diver __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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3rd September 2005, 11:53	#12 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,105	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Keep in mind that diving in coldwater with drysuit and thick undersuit, this skill will be a lot more tricky than with a lycra/wetsuit in tropical environment. If you don't have adequate weight on your body and use the rig as part of your buoyancy (i.e. I don't wear weight belt even with drysuit, for example), this skill will be next to impossible. Me either, but I had to take my rig off to get out of a cave in france.... its a worthwhile skill. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
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3rd September 2005, 12:11	#13 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel) Me either, but I had to take my rig off to get out of a cave in france.... its a worthwhile skill. I guess taking the rig off at the entrance of Fountaine de Truffe is a little bit different than in OW or inside a room in a wreck. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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3rd September 2005, 13:03	#14 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Boom Scenario = somethign goes boom! Either Internal or External. I am sur eyou have all practiced it but you call it comething different. Stuart
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3rd September 2005, 13:10	#15 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) However, if one of my certified students needed to read a card before knowing how to properly perform an underwater skill, then IMHO they have missed the point completely, they should be 100% competent and confident in their ability to dive CCR, and the only way to do that is to do skills on every dive. Perhaps I was not very clear in fact I wasn't - I envisage the cards not only having the basics of the skill on them but also acting as a prop to encourage regular skills development. Perhaps with a suggested order on them or a laminated spot where you safety diver rights down how long it takes to perform the skill so you can see a measurable benefit over time. Some skills can not be practised every dive - they need to be practiced in a controlled planned enviroment eg, full bailout, SAC rate testing under stress or rescue of unconcious diver. These cards and the planning around them would enable us all to benefit.
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3rd September 2005, 13:19	#16 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,105	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) Boom Scenario = somethign goes boom! Either Internal or External. I am sur eyou have all practiced it but you call it comething different. Stuart I've had a few internal booms, normally put it down to the curry though __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
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3rd September 2005, 21:46	#17 (permalink)
PeteS Consent Issued! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 543	Basil Brush? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Fellow WTF is a Boom Drill?? diver Go on then, I'll join in with wtf is a boom drill? A drill that makes holes in booms? They'd sink. As the great Janet says, "sometimes you lot talk in code......." __________________ Pete S. http://www.steggle.co.nz Every silver lining has a cloud
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3rd September 2005, 22:11	#18 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,194	Boom drill. Where you hear an unexpected 'Boom' underwater and the drill you then undertake to find out which of your hoses has exploded! No different from OC really, shut down, check gauges, check PPO2 etc etc. That or it is some Brummie bum bandit skill Oops! Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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9th September 2005, 18:52	#19 (permalink)
mattmexico PROTEC MEXICO Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Optima RB80 / Clone Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss RB80 / Clone Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Mexico, Q.Roo, Playa del Carmen Posts: 773	Yo To make the student do the drills during class is relativly easy. To make them go on with it after the course is a different matter and somewaht connected to the mental outlook of the student. I wish I could say that all my students are practicing after the course as I have told them a dozen times. I try to make them understand that poorly learned survival skills go first and if you don't want to survive in a shit storm you probably won't. I would think that most students get that but out of experience I am looking at a much more bleack reality. Say getting a cave student back after 6 month and try to do a follow line, zero viz sharing gas exit might be only marginally survivable. Or getting a ccr student back after 6 month and he needs a refresher and I hold up the card saying hyperoxic drill, please react and then look on how they struggle along, and we are just in 15 feet / 4.5 meters with openwater on top of us is bringing up sad feelings of failure, my failure. Did I fail to implemet in my student the feeling of urgency and need of repetition when talking about emergency drills or does my student not care for his or her safety, and potentially the safety of a team surounding them ?. I don't know. I fear the day when my students name is showing up in statistics, due to a silly error or obmitting safe ccr diving practices. The IANTD CCR Instructor submersible tables / charts helped me getting the student into a routine and I recommend to my students to get a set so they have something they can orient themselfes to when practicing emergency drills after the course. Matt www.protecdiving.com
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29th August 2006, 08:30	#20 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,119	Re: Ongoing Skills Training / Proposal well strangely enough, I just wrote the definitive discourse on what a boom really is and how to recover from it and I did it before i read this thread, weird and Phi's 666th post is on this thread too, better go buy a lottery ticket tomorrow. great idea stuart!! __________________ Marine rescue, towing and salvage. Interfering with natural selection since 1983. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc. www.seatowpdx.com The Summer Job
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