No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving

gerstl_ossi · 25th August 2007, 21:27

I have no certification for rebreather diving as I dive a home build eCCR or PSCR-rebreather

. I often get problems on Diving’s and the staff makes a lot of stories as I have no certification and they did not give the permission to dive my unit.
Can someone tell me what I can do to avoid these problems? I think there are a lot of home builder witch have the same problems?
Ossi from Italy

***caveseeker7*** · 25th August 2007, 23:10

Homebuild - make your own, you're the manufacturer, just like Tom Rose's c-card
Been discussed, previous thread
pSCR - get trained, courses available from PSA (RON), IANTD (Tourill, Habanero, Piquin), GUE (RB80) ... I doubt many people can tell them apart

mountain diver · 26th August 2007, 00:17

it never fails, in an industry where there is a big play on having c- cards of some type, ( c- card says your qualified? )there is ways to usurp a card of your own. to do that which you love to do, dive.that being said, it is the result of a self- regulated industry that causes such problems. on the other hand, I know of one agency that gives you a ccr card, but only teaches 50%
nitrox courses. that same thought in mind, how do you go about getting
100% o2 fills? I have seen people turned away because they cannot produce
an advanced nitrox card.question? do we encourage people to get training or
call your self a manufacture and make your own card?

your thought's.

all the best.

***jradomski*** · 26th August 2007, 02:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by mountain diver)

it never fails, in an industry where there is a big play on having c- cards of some type, ( c- card says your qualified? )there is ways to usurp a card of your own. to do that which you love to do, dive.that being said, it is the result of a self- regulated industry that causes such problems. on the other hand, I know of one agency that gives you a ccr card, but only teaches 50%
nitrox courses. that same thought in mind, how do you go about getting
100% o2 fills? I have seen people turned away because they cannot produce
an advanced nitrox card.question? do we encourage people to get training or
call your self a manufacture and make your own card?

your thought's.

all the best.

Your rebreather card is what gives you the 100% o2 fill.. 100% is not nitrox, its oxygen..
You should not have to produce a nitrox card to get your rebreather bottles filled.. The Rebreather card is a level above the typical nitrox rating.. Oxygen handling (to different degrees) is taught in most RB classes..

Also remember not all advanced nitrox cards give you 100%.. for example the IANTD nitrox card is a 50% rating..

If the store does not understand the various ratings around.. find another shop.. obviously they don't know the industry and the various ratings available and who has what training.... Rebreather people will have a much better concept about handling oxygen than an "advanced" nitrox diver.

use of 100% should only be included where it is warranted like in a technical decompression class or rebreather class.. 100% o2 has no other sport diving use (underwater) so its not warranted in an advanced nitrox program.. The two oldest techincal agencies (ANDI and IANTD) follow this route.. NauiTech doesnt introduce 100% until the technical decompression diver program, prior to that its 80% for their technical nitrox

only TDI and PSA offer 100% "nitrox" with advanced nitrox even though its not nitrox..

Cleary 100% with Advanced nitrox is NOT the norm.

seppu · 26th August 2007, 09:13

hai
i have the iantd inspiration ccr trimix card and course.on the plastic is only ccr trimix.never have problems with my homebuild.or make your own ticket.
gruss sepp

gerstl_ossi · 26th August 2007, 09:51

Hi Stefan,
thanks a lot for the link to the previous treat. I will go the same way, make my one c-card witch give me the certification for that I think I'm qualified to do. Making a home build rebreather means You have to understand exactly how a breather works.
And for the PSCR is the same story, it's not a EDO4, not a RON or RB80 but a RO80

(Reinhold Oswald PSCR - Reinhold is my twin brother and we make and dive the rebreather together)

Is there someone ho can help me to find plank c-cards in small quantities.

gerstl_ossi · 26th August 2007, 10:10

Hi Sepp,
as I will newer own a yellow box i will go the way with the home made c-card. Its not so expensive

. I have no Trimix certification, as my normal diving is within the 40 meter limit. Maybe in the future, when I plan to go deeper, I can do like You. Get a certification for Trimix for the BI and use it for my homebuild.

And now it's time to get a "Weisswurscht und a Weissbier vours holt 12e leitet

"

Gruß Ossi

mountain diver · 27th August 2007, 04:21

well said Joe, you are right 100% is not nitrox and also is not the norm.
also I'am well aware of ( Ed and Tom)- (Andi - Iantd).
but, I stand by what I said,there is no standard in the scuba industry, all one has to do is look at the different agency's.
in my comment I asked a question, you failed to answer it. this is what I was looking for. An answer to the question.
Anyone else want to take a kick at it?

all the best.

***jradomski*** · 27th August 2007, 04:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by mountain diver)

well said Joe, you are right 100% is not nitrox and also is not the norm.
also I'am well aware of ( Ed and Tom)- (Andi - Iantd).
but, I stand by what I said,there is no standard in the scuba industry, all one has to do is look at the different agency's.
in my comment I asked a question, you failed to answer it. this is what I was looking for. An answer to the question.
Anyone else want to take a kick at it?

all the best.

There is nothing stopping anyone from printing their own card, the problem is that of recognition.. Will someone else recognize the card??

I cant' speak fo the other agencies but I do know that ANDI was approached by several parties to produce a class/cert for "conversion" rigs.. ANDI had to decline beause of liability issues.. so I guess the others are probably in the same boat.

In many resort places there are rules in place as to what diving and who is allowed.. There is usually some wording that states a certification from an internationally recognized body..

I can think of at least one case where a manufacturer had to take a "class" and get a certification card form an internationally recognized agency so that they would be legally allowed to dive at a certain destination..

**wedivebc** · 27th August 2007, 05:21

Some of the most knowledgable and therefore probably the most successful rebreather divers are home builders. Unfortunately the agencies are at the mercy of the insurance companies that underwrite the standards of training.

25th August 2007, 21:27	#1 (permalink)
gerstl_ossi RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 345	No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving I have no certification for rebreather diving as I dive a home build eCCR or PSCR-rebreather . I often get problems on Diving’s and the staff makes a lot of stories as I have no certification and they did not give the permission to dive my unit. Can someone tell me what I can do to avoid these problems? I think there are a lot of home builder witch have the same problems? Ossi from Italy
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25th August 2007, 23:10	#2 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,555	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving Homebuild - make your own, you're the manufacturer, just like Tom Rose's c-card Been discussed, previous thread pSCR - get trained, courses available from PSA (RON), IANTD (Tourill, Habanero, Piquin), GUE (RB80) ... I doubt many people can tell them apart __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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26th August 2007, 00:17	#3 (permalink)
mountain diver Silent Lucidity Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: edmonton, ab. Posts: 228	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving it never fails, in an industry where there is a big play on having c- cards of some type, ( c- card says your qualified? )there is ways to usurp a card of your own. to do that which you love to do, dive.that being said, it is the result of a self- regulated industry that causes such problems. on the other hand, I know of one agency that gives you a ccr card, but only teaches 50% nitrox courses. that same thought in mind, how do you go about getting 100% o2 fills? I have seen people turned away because they cannot produce an advanced nitrox card.question? do we encourage people to get training or call your self a manufacture and make your own card? your thought's. all the best.
(Offline)

26th August 2007, 02:39	#4 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving Quote: (Originally Posted by mountain diver) it never fails, in an industry where there is a big play on having c- cards of some type, ( c- card says your qualified? )there is ways to usurp a card of your own. to do that which you love to do, dive.that being said, it is the result of a self- regulated industry that causes such problems. on the other hand, I know of one agency that gives you a ccr card, but only teaches 50% nitrox courses. that same thought in mind, how do you go about getting 100% o2 fills? I have seen people turned away because they cannot produce an advanced nitrox card.question? do we encourage people to get training or call your self a manufacture and make your own card? your thought's. all the best. Your rebreather card is what gives you the 100% o2 fill.. 100% is not nitrox, its oxygen.. You should not have to produce a nitrox card to get your rebreather bottles filled.. The Rebreather card is a level above the typical nitrox rating.. Oxygen handling (to different degrees) is taught in most RB classes.. Also remember not all advanced nitrox cards give you 100%.. for example the IANTD nitrox card is a 50% rating.. If the store does not understand the various ratings around.. find another shop.. obviously they don't know the industry and the various ratings available and who has what training.... Rebreather people will have a much better concept about handling oxygen than an "advanced" nitrox diver. use of 100% should only be included where it is warranted like in a technical decompression class or rebreather class.. 100% o2 has no other sport diving use (underwater) so its not warranted in an advanced nitrox program.. The two oldest techincal agencies (ANDI and IANTD) follow this route.. NauiTech doesnt introduce 100% until the technical decompression diver program, prior to that its 80% for their technical nitrox only TDI and PSA offer 100% "nitrox" with advanced nitrox even though its not nitrox.. Cleary 100% with Advanced nitrox is NOT the norm. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 26th August 2007 at 04:11.
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26th August 2007, 09:13	#5 (permalink)
seppu i ko nix dafüa Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: bayern Posts: 204	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving hai i have the iantd inspiration ccr trimix card and course.on the plastic is only ccr trimix.never have problems with my homebuild.or make your own ticket. gruss sepp
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26th August 2007, 09:51	#6 (permalink)
gerstl_ossi RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 345	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving Hi Stefan, thanks a lot for the link to the previous treat. I will go the same way, make my one c-card witch give me the certification for that I think I'm qualified to do. Making a home build rebreather means You have to understand exactly how a breather works. And for the PSCR is the same story, it's not a EDO4, not a RON or RB80 but a RO80 (Reinhold Oswald PSCR - Reinhold is my twin brother and we make and dive the rebreather together) Is there someone ho can help me to find plank c-cards in small quantities.
(Offline)

26th August 2007, 10:10	#7 (permalink)
gerstl_ossi RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 345	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving Hi Sepp, as I will newer own a yellow box i will go the way with the home made c-card. Its not so expensive . I have no Trimix certification, as my normal diving is within the 40 meter limit. Maybe in the future, when I plan to go deeper, I can do like You. Get a certification for Trimix for the BI and use it for my homebuild. And now it's time to get a "Weisswurscht und a Weissbier vours holt 12e leitet " Gruß Ossi
(Offline)

27th August 2007, 04:21	#8 (permalink)
mountain diver Silent Lucidity Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: edmonton, ab. Posts: 228	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving well said Joe, you are right 100% is not nitrox and also is not the norm. also I'am well aware of ( Ed and Tom)- (Andi - Iantd). but, I stand by what I said,there is no standard in the scuba industry, all one has to do is look at the different agency's. in my comment I asked a question, you failed to answer it. this is what I was looking for. An answer to the question. Anyone else want to take a kick at it? all the best.
(Offline)

27th August 2007, 04:38	#9 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving Quote: (Originally Posted by mountain diver) well said Joe, you are right 100% is not nitrox and also is not the norm. also I'am well aware of ( Ed and Tom)- (Andi - Iantd). but, I stand by what I said,there is no standard in the scuba industry, all one has to do is look at the different agency's. in my comment I asked a question, you failed to answer it. this is what I was looking for. An answer to the question. Anyone else want to take a kick at it? all the best. There is nothing stopping anyone from printing their own card, the problem is that of recognition.. Will someone else recognize the card?? I cant' speak fo the other agencies but I do know that ANDI was approached by several parties to produce a class/cert for "conversion" rigs.. ANDI had to decline beause of liability issues.. so I guess the others are probably in the same boat. In many resort places there are rules in place as to what diving and who is allowed.. There is usually some wording that states a certification from an internationally recognized body.. I can think of at least one case where a manufacturer had to take a "class" and get a certification card form an internationally recognized agency so that they would be legally allowed to dive at a certain destination.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Offline)

27th August 2007, 05:21	#10 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,507	Re: No certification for homebuild rebreatherdiving Some of the most knowledgable and therefore probably the most successful rebreather divers are home builders. Unfortunately the agencies are at the mercy of the insurance companies that underwrite the standards of training. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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