Dive Insurance and Rebreathers

Lancer4545 · 2nd July 2007, 10:48

I just received my DAN membership card in the mail today along with all the usual bits and pieces. One thing which jumped out at me this time which I had never really paid any attention to in the past was a small slip of paper with "Reminder about Rebreathers" written in BOLD text.

Basically it is a reminder that in the Asia-Pacific Region, DAN's insurance will not cover a rebreather diver in the event of accidental death no matter what level of coverage you take out. DCI and any other illness is still covered.

Only now since I have decided to move to rebreathers is this an issue. Is it just our region that excludes rebreather divers from the accidental death coverage or are there other areas which are also in the same predicament.

What other insurance options are available or are we out there on our own and left out in the dark..........

Puts an all new meaning to "Moving over to the dark side" !!

Lance Robb
Cairns QLD
Australia

bletso · 2nd July 2007, 11:25

Try Dive Safe at http://www.divesafeinsurance.com/

Dale

**Dave1w** · 2nd July 2007, 12:19

Is it on the website anywhere?
I joined up over the web, and searched for any mention of any exclusions for rebreather divers. I just looked and it is in the Australia policy, but not in the Overseas policy.
Mind I still haven't received my cards

Dave

Genesis · 2nd July 2007, 14:20

One question - of what purpose is dive insurance if you're dead?

If they'll treat me if I get DCI, etc I'm happy. I buy dive insurance to cover my medical treatment from diving accidents.

If I expire, I no longer require treatment, and quite honestly, if I am never found after such an accident that's fine - I will have passed doing something I love.

**wedivebc** · 2nd July 2007, 15:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

One question - of what purpose is dive insurance if you're dead?

If they'll treat me if I get DCI, etc I'm happy. I buy dive insurance to cover my medical treatment from diving accidents.

If I expire, I no longer require treatment, and quite honestly, if I am never found after such an accident that's fine - I will have passed doing something I love.

Some of us have loved ones and family that rely on our ability to earn. That is what life insurance is for.

Genesis · 2nd July 2007, 16:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc)

Some of us have loved ones and family that rely on our ability to earn. That is what life insurance is for.

DAN's "life insurance" is a joke in this regard. If your loved ones are relying on your continued consumption of oxygen in order to survive in a reasonable fashion you need to have real life insurance with a real face value.

This is not going to be cheap if you're a rebreather diver, as it is virtually guaranteed to get you "rated", and if you lie and then cack, your family will not get paid.

BTW, "real insurance" is defined as 10x your annual salary. That's a minimum for your loved ones to be able to replace your income should you die, as the best you can reasonably expect on a long-term basis is 9-11% capital appreciation from investments. 15x is safer, as it allows your heirs to annuitize the face value if you die (even though annuities tend to have high fees and costs, a fixed annuity DOES provide the safety of a known, fixed income stream)

DAN's "death benefit" is, in this context, a joke. It is therefore irrelavent to estate planning and is thus better considered a means of accident insurance, not part of your estate-planning toolbox.

**PhilSiswick** · 2nd July 2007, 16:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

DAN's "life insurance" is a joke in this regard. If your loved ones are relying on your continued consumption of oxygen in order to survive in a reasonable fashion you need to have real life insurance with a real face value.

This is not going to be cheap if you're a rebreather diver, as it is virtually guaranteed to get you "rated", and if you lie and then cack, your family will not get paid.

BTW, "real insurance" is defined as 10x your annual salary. That's a minimum for your loved ones to be able to replace your income should you die, as the best you can reasonably expect on a long-term basis is 9-11% capital appreciation from investments. 15x is safer, as it allows your heirs to annuitize the face value if you die (even though annuities tend to have high fees and costs, a fixed annuity DOES provide the safety of a known, fixed income stream)

DAN's "death benefit" is, in this context, a joke. It is therefore irrelavent to estate planning and is thus better considered a means of accident insurance, not part of your estate-planning toolbox.

For once Karl, I find myself agreeing with you wholeheartedly.

Cheers,

**Dave1w** · 2nd July 2007, 16:15

But isn't the DAN life insurance like $10,000 ?? Which with todays exchange rate is, umm, £10.50?

Get some flowers for that (well nearly, if you pick them yourself)

Dave

kieranu · 3rd July 2007, 05:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lancer4545)

I just received my DAN membership card in the mail today along with all the usual bits and pieces. One thing which jumped out at me this time which I had never really paid any attention to in the past was a small slip of paper with "Reminder about Rebreathers" written in BOLD text.

Basically it is a reminder that in the Asia-Pacific Region, DAN's insurance will not cover a rebreather diver in the event of accidental death no matter what level of coverage you take out. DCI and any other illness is still covered.

Only now since I have decided to move to rebreathers is this an issue. Is it just our region that excludes rebreather divers from the accidental death coverage or are there other areas which are also in the same predicament.

What other insurance options are available or are we out there on our own and left out in the dark..........

Puts an all new meaning to "Moving over to the dark side" !!

Lance Robb
Cairns QLD
Australia

I got DAN insurance for evacuation, hyperbaric chamber treatment, etc when I'm abroad (whether on a CCR or OC) - it also covers evacuation whether for diving or not so no need to buy a separate travel insurance policy. All my dive gear is covered by household insurance which covers me while out of the country for 30 days at a time

My wife is on the same policy, even though she doesn't really dive, for that very reason. Definitely not worth getting for the life insurance (in Australia get that through your super - its tax deductible) - with the diving I currently do I only bothered getting the master plan (shallower than 50m) anyway. In Australia, evacuation, hyperbaric treatment, etc is covered by Medicare so if you're not planning to travel overseas DAN isn't worth getting.

RebreatherNut · 3rd July 2007, 05:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by bletso)

Try Dive Safe at DiveSafe Dive Insurance

Dale

Dale,
How does the divesafeinsurance.com differ from DAN?

Anyone have experience with divesafeinsurance ???

cheers,
RBN

2nd July 2007, 10:48	#1 (permalink)
Lancer4545 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairns QLD Australia Posts: 745	Dive Insurance and Rebreathers I just received my DAN membership card in the mail today along with all the usual bits and pieces. One thing which jumped out at me this time which I had never really paid any attention to in the past was a small slip of paper with "Reminder about Rebreathers" written in BOLD text. Basically it is a reminder that in the Asia-Pacific Region, DAN's insurance will not cover a rebreather diver in the event of accidental death no matter what level of coverage you take out. DCI and any other illness is still covered. Only now since I have decided to move to rebreathers is this an issue. Is it just our region that excludes rebreather divers from the accidental death coverage or are there other areas which are also in the same predicament. What other insurance options are available or are we out there on our own and left out in the dark.......... Puts an all new meaning to "Moving over to the dark side" !! Lance Robb Cairns QLD Australia
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2nd July 2007, 11:25	#2 (permalink)
bletso An independent diver. Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 263	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers Try Dive Safe at http://www.divesafeinsurance.com/ Dale
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2nd July 2007, 12:19	#3 (permalink)
Dave1w Born Again Diver! Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Dolphin Ray Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore / UK Posts: 378	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers Is it on the website anywhere? I joined up over the web, and searched for any mention of any exclusions for rebreather divers. I just looked and it is in the Australia policy, but not in the Overseas policy. Mind I still haven't received my cards Dave Last edited by Dave1w : 2nd July 2007 at 12:22. Reason: spellin
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2nd July 2007, 14:20	#4 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,453	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers One question - of what purpose is dive insurance if you're dead? If they'll treat me if I get DCI, etc I'm happy. I buy dive insurance to cover my medical treatment from diving accidents. If I expire, I no longer require treatment, and quite honestly, if I am never found after such an accident that's fine - I will have passed doing something I love. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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2nd July 2007, 15:54	#5 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,507	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) One question - of what purpose is dive insurance if you're dead? If they'll treat me if I get DCI, etc I'm happy. I buy dive insurance to cover my medical treatment from diving accidents. If I expire, I no longer require treatment, and quite honestly, if I am never found after such an accident that's fine - I will have passed doing something I love. Some of us have loved ones and family that rely on our ability to earn. That is what life insurance is for. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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2nd July 2007, 16:01	#6 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,453	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc) Some of us have loved ones and family that rely on our ability to earn. That is what life insurance is for. DAN's "life insurance" is a joke in this regard. If your loved ones are relying on your continued consumption of oxygen in order to survive in a reasonable fashion you need to have real life insurance with a real face value. This is not going to be cheap if you're a rebreather diver, as it is virtually guaranteed to get you "rated", and if you lie and then cack, your family will not get paid. BTW, "real insurance" is defined as 10x your annual salary. That's a minimum for your loved ones to be able to replace your income should you die, as the best you can reasonably expect on a long-term basis is 9-11% capital appreciation from investments. 15x is safer, as it allows your heirs to annuitize the face value if you die (even though annuities tend to have high fees and costs, a fixed annuity DOES provide the safety of a known, fixed income stream) DAN's "death benefit" is, in this context, a joke. It is therefore irrelavent to estate planning and is thus better considered a means of accident insurance, not part of your estate-planning toolbox. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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2nd July 2007, 16:11	#7 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,092	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) DAN's "life insurance" is a joke in this regard. If your loved ones are relying on your continued consumption of oxygen in order to survive in a reasonable fashion you need to have real life insurance with a real face value. This is not going to be cheap if you're a rebreather diver, as it is virtually guaranteed to get you "rated", and if you lie and then cack, your family will not get paid. BTW, "real insurance" is defined as 10x your annual salary. That's a minimum for your loved ones to be able to replace your income should you die, as the best you can reasonably expect on a long-term basis is 9-11% capital appreciation from investments. 15x is safer, as it allows your heirs to annuitize the face value if you die (even though annuities tend to have high fees and costs, a fixed annuity DOES provide the safety of a known, fixed income stream) DAN's "death benefit" is, in this context, a joke. It is therefore irrelavent to estate planning and is thus better considered a means of accident insurance, not part of your estate-planning toolbox. For once Karl, I find myself agreeing with you wholeheartedly. Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
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2nd July 2007, 16:15	#8 (permalink)
Dave1w Born Again Diver! Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Dolphin Ray Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore / UK Posts: 378	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers But isn't the DAN life insurance like $10,000 ?? Which with todays exchange rate is, umm, £10.50? Get some flowers for that (well nearly, if you pick them yourself) Dave
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3rd July 2007, 05:19	#9 (permalink)
kieranu Apprentice Meg Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: WA, Australia Posts: 235	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers Quote: (Originally Posted by Lancer4545) I just received my DAN membership card in the mail today along with all the usual bits and pieces. One thing which jumped out at me this time which I had never really paid any attention to in the past was a small slip of paper with "Reminder about Rebreathers" written in BOLD text. Basically it is a reminder that in the Asia-Pacific Region, DAN's insurance will not cover a rebreather diver in the event of accidental death no matter what level of coverage you take out. DCI and any other illness is still covered. Only now since I have decided to move to rebreathers is this an issue. Is it just our region that excludes rebreather divers from the accidental death coverage or are there other areas which are also in the same predicament. What other insurance options are available or are we out there on our own and left out in the dark.......... Puts an all new meaning to "Moving over to the dark side" !! Lance Robb Cairns QLD Australia I got DAN insurance for evacuation, hyperbaric chamber treatment, etc when I'm abroad (whether on a CCR or OC) - it also covers evacuation whether for diving or not so no need to buy a separate travel insurance policy. All my dive gear is covered by household insurance which covers me while out of the country for 30 days at a time My wife is on the same policy, even though she doesn't really dive, for that very reason. Definitely not worth getting for the life insurance (in Australia get that through your super - its tax deductible) - with the diving I currently do I only bothered getting the master plan (shallower than 50m) anyway. In Australia, evacuation, hyperbaric treatment, etc is covered by Medicare so if you're not planning to travel overseas DAN isn't worth getting.
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3rd July 2007, 05:52	#10 (permalink)
RebreatherNut Casual Sport Kiss Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Ray Other Rebreather/s: Ray Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 720	Re: Dive Insurance and Rebreathers Quote: (Originally Posted by bletso) Try Dive Safe at DiveSafe Dive Insurance Dale Dale, How does the divesafeinsurance.com differ from DAN? Anyone have experience with divesafeinsurance ??? cheers, RBN __________________ "One minute to go, Luck-meister! Then I'll be down on you like a buzzard on a gut wagon." - ALF
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