New APD standards for instructors

***jradomski*** · 31st May 2007, 04:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

So far, not really.

With the new rules from AP about instructors are you going to buy another Vison??

decoweenie · 31st May 2007, 04:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

With the new rules from AP about instructors are you going to buy another Vison??

Which new rule ?

Regardless, mine is already on order.

***jradomski*** · 31st May 2007, 05:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Which new rule ?

Regardless, mine is already on order.

to remain as a recognized instructor you must retain ownership of an inspiration or vision, prove x amount of hours a year on an inspiration.. There will also be a minimum number of classes that have to be taught and factory sponsored refreshers every so often that will have to be attended.. Along with some other rules...

the minimum standards are also being raised... It appears crossovers wount be allowed and full classes will be mandated.. Signed logs of the class will have to be forwarded to ap.. yada yada yada...

decoweenie · 31st May 2007, 06:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

to remain as a recognized instructor you must...

Wow, sounds like AP is getting serious about the training - which is a very good thing.

Don't quite understand or agree about NO cross-over though...

Where do I find out more about this new rule, Joe ? Thanks for the info, BTW.

***jradomski*** · 31st May 2007, 06:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Wow, sounds like AP is getting serious about the training - which is a very good thing.

Don't quite understand or agree about NO cross-over though...

Where do I find out more about this new rule, Joe ? Thanks for the info, BTW.

The training agencies were notified a few weeks ago and given time to respond.. I know we asked some of our instructors for feedback.. I expect it to be disclosed by all the agencies shortly since the intended implementation dates was supposed to be june 1...

They are also going to limit ITs and it appears they are putting a temporary hold on any new instructor after that date..

**rigdiver** · 31st May 2007, 13:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

The training agencies were notified a few weeks ago and given time to respond.. I know we asked some of our instructors for feedback.. I expect it to be disclosed by all the agencies shortly since the intended implementation dates was supposed to be june 1...

They are also going to limit ITs and it appears they are putting a temporary hold on any new instructor after that date..

That just goes against the grain of a free market economy. Sounds like what DEMA tried to do to Dick Rutkowski in the early 90's. We all know how well that went over.

Bill Childers NAUI 5709L CD/IANTD 1982

***caveseeker7*** · 31st May 2007, 14:27

Sounds to me that AP finally, like SMI and ISC before, starts taking training issues seriously.

May not be "free market economy", but asking buyers to get trained isn't in the first place, is it.

Quite frankly, having an instructor who doesn't own/dive a unit, who isn't proficient with it, sucks.
Their tickets oughta be suspended.

**rigdiver** · 31st May 2007, 15:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Sounds to me that AP finally, like SMI and ISC before, starts taking training issues seriously.

May not be "free market economy", but asking buyers to get trained isn't in the first place, is it.

Quite frankly, having an instructor who doesn't own/dive a unit, who isn't proficient with it, sucks.
Their tickets oughta be suspended.

I agree with what you are saying. My issue is limiting numbers of Inst's. Scenario: You've got all the credentials, # of dives, but "we don't have room for you right now." So, if XYZ agency allows you to be a CCR Inst how can APD stop you from teaching/issuing certs? I'm all for agency standards being followed to the letter. I'm not a CCR Inst and may never be, but at the end of my classes I pull out the stds and show them to the about to be certified students and ask them "Now is there anything we have not done?"

Bill

**nigelh** · 31st May 2007, 16:34

Is this only if they want to buy Inspirations/Evos at a discount for selling on?

My attitude has always been I chose instructors for what I want to learn and suppliers for what I want to buy. If these coincide that is a convenience.

I'd like to upgrade my Normoxic card to full 'Mix as I'm rather exceeding it now and I'd hope there's something new to learn on the course. However does it bother me if the instructor is approved by anybody other than me and who-ever prints his cards? Not really... Some courses I've done I don't even care if there is a card.

...and before somebody trots out the usual line about cards and insurance. I'm a widower with grown up children. I don't have life insurance anymore.

CharlieT · 31st May 2007, 16:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Sounds to me that AP finally, like SMI and ISC before, starts taking training issues seriously.

May not be "free market economy", but asking buyers to get trained isn't in the first place, is it.

Quite frankly, having an instructor who doesn't own/dive a unit, who isn't proficient with it, sucks.
Their tickets oughta be suspended.

I agree.

I want my instructor to have expert knowledge in my Inspiration and I want him/her to update that knowledge and experience which they can best do by diving regularly on the unit.

APD are right to review their policy as this upping of standards can only lead to an improved quality of training. If that helps to chop out those instructors who hand out cards to students who don't fulfill the standards properly, so much the better.

No one is surely going to argue against anything that helps lessen the number of fatalities?

Charlie

31st May 2007, 04:45	#1 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Complete Meg neoprene loop Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) So far, not really. With the new rules from AP about instructors are you going to buy another Vison?? __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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31st May 2007, 04:48	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Complete Meg neoprene loop Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) With the new rules from AP about instructors are you going to buy another Vison?? Which new rule ? Regardless, mine is already on order. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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31st May 2007, 05:50	#3 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Complete Meg neoprene loop Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Which new rule ? Regardless, mine is already on order. to remain as a recognized instructor you must retain ownership of an inspiration or vision, prove x amount of hours a year on an inspiration.. There will also be a minimum number of classes that have to be taught and factory sponsored refreshers every so often that will have to be attended.. Along with some other rules... the minimum standards are also being raised... It appears crossovers wount be allowed and full classes will be mandated.. Signed logs of the class will have to be forwarded to ap.. yada yada yada... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 31st May 2007 at 05:52.
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31st May 2007, 06:13	#4 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Complete Meg neoprene loop Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) to remain as a recognized instructor you must... Wow, sounds like AP is getting serious about the training - which is a very good thing. Don't quite understand or agree about NO cross-over though... Where do I find out more about this new rule, Joe ? Thanks for the info, BTW. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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31st May 2007, 06:26	#5 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Complete Meg neoprene loop Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Wow, sounds like AP is getting serious about the training - which is a very good thing. Don't quite understand or agree about NO cross-over though... Where do I find out more about this new rule, Joe ? Thanks for the info, BTW. The training agencies were notified a few weeks ago and given time to respond.. I know we asked some of our instructors for feedback.. I expect it to be disclosed by all the agencies shortly since the intended implementation dates was supposed to be june 1... They are also going to limit ITs and it appears they are putting a temporary hold on any new instructor after that date.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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31st May 2007, 13:54	#6 (permalink)
rigdiver LEARNING CONTINUALLY Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS Posts: 427	Re: Complete Meg neoprene loop Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) The training agencies were notified a few weeks ago and given time to respond.. I know we asked some of our instructors for feedback.. I expect it to be disclosed by all the agencies shortly since the intended implementation dates was supposed to be june 1... They are also going to limit ITs and it appears they are putting a temporary hold on any new instructor after that date.. That just goes against the grain of a free market economy. Sounds like what DEMA tried to do to Dick Rutkowski in the early 90's. We all know how well that went over. Bill Childers NAUI 5709L CD/IANTD 1982
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31st May 2007, 14:27	#7 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,555	Re: New APD standards for instructors Sounds to me that AP finally, like SMI and ISC before, starts taking training issues seriously. May not be "free market economy", but asking buyers to get trained isn't in the first place, is it. Quite frankly, having an instructor who doesn't own/dive a unit, who isn't proficient with it, sucks. Their tickets oughta be suspended. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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31st May 2007, 15:59	#8 (permalink)
rigdiver LEARNING CONTINUALLY Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: TEXAS Posts: 427	Re: New APD standards for instructors Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Sounds to me that AP finally, like SMI and ISC before, starts taking training issues seriously. May not be "free market economy", but asking buyers to get trained isn't in the first place, is it. Quite frankly, having an instructor who doesn't own/dive a unit, who isn't proficient with it, sucks. Their tickets oughta be suspended. I agree with what you are saying. My issue is limiting numbers of Inst's. Scenario: You've got all the credentials, # of dives, but "we don't have room for you right now." So, if XYZ agency allows you to be a CCR Inst how can APD stop you from teaching/issuing certs? I'm all for agency standards being followed to the letter. I'm not a CCR Inst and may never be, but at the end of my classes I pull out the stds and show them to the about to be certified students and ask them "Now is there anything we have not done?" Bill
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31st May 2007, 16:34	#9 (permalink)
nigelh New member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 883	Re: New APD standards for instructors Is this only if they want to buy Inspirations/Evos at a discount for selling on? My attitude has always been I chose instructors for what I want to learn and suppliers for what I want to buy. If these coincide that is a convenience. I'd like to upgrade my Normoxic card to full 'Mix as I'm rather exceeding it now and I'd hope there's something new to learn on the course. However does it bother me if the instructor is approved by anybody other than me and who-ever prints his cards? Not really... Some courses I've done I don't even care if there is a card. ...and before somebody trots out the usual line about cards and insurance. I'm a widower with grown up children. I don't have life insurance anymore. __________________ nigelh
(Online)

31st May 2007, 16:55	#10 (permalink)
CharlieT Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 449	Re: New APD standards for instructors Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Sounds to me that AP finally, like SMI and ISC before, starts taking training issues seriously. May not be "free market economy", but asking buyers to get trained isn't in the first place, is it. Quite frankly, having an instructor who doesn't own/dive a unit, who isn't proficient with it, sucks. Their tickets oughta be suspended. I agree. I want my instructor to have expert knowledge in my Inspiration and I want him/her to update that knowledge and experience which they can best do by diving regularly on the unit. APD are right to review their policy as this upping of standards can only lead to an improved quality of training. If that helps to chop out those instructors who hand out cards to students who don't fulfill the standards properly, so much the better. No one is surely going to argue against anything that helps lessen the number of fatalities? Charlie
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