Bringing an unconscious Rebreather diver up from depth

Divechick

What is the best technique for bringing an unconscious Rebreather diver up from depth? Do the skills that were taught for OC still apply? Presumably, in addition to controlling the usual sources of buoyancy - wing, drysuit - lifting an RB diver would entail controlling an additional source of buoyancy - the loop/counterlungs - and also potentially monitoring and maintaining PP02. Is it necessary to teach a specialized technique for rebreathers?

Interested in anyone's thoughts.

Digger

Personally, I dive a KISS, and I am weighted such that with my gear still attached (torches and stages) with the counterlungs full I am neutral. So that's one thing to forget about.

When I am diving with OC divers or even most Rebreather divers I tell them to just turn the knob and bail me out. You can then see I am breathing and lift me. I run the BOV from my offboard gas which means you've got a lot of gas before you even need to think about gas switches etc. In reality, I wouldn't expect a buddy to blast through their deco to get me up and just send me to the surface along with as many yellow bags as they can find so the surface support is on their way.

I would advise lifting me anyway you like, front or back, same as you would an OC diver.

I remember my regular buddy asking me the first time we talked about the KISS what they can do if there's a problem. In reality I said there's 3 things I want to avoid - High ppO2, low ppO2, high CO2. All three will either be dealt with by me or will result in turning that knob in my mouth. This is made easier because I have an old KISS BOV with the knob right on the front where everyone can see it. I have been thinking about getting another knob made out of luminous pink with a big on/off sign on the front.

Having dived with a large number of inspo divers lifting them isn't so easy. With a large amount of potential lift in the counterlungs there is this to think about, plus some units don't have BOVs, so all you can do is keep the loop in and lift and hope they're breathing. Not such an issue with an ECCR as they'll (as long as the unit is working) keep them on breathable gas. One of the reasons I suggest people bail me out is to guarantee breathable and useful gas, plus it is far more familiar for most. I find even experienced Rebreather divers have done far more lifts on OC divers than RB divers, something which I haven't seen much in RB training courses. I think there would be a really good opportunity for someone to come up with an RB rescue course, even OC buddies could come along and pick up the skills they need to make sure they can get you to the surface.

Hope this helps. I find the best thing to do is ask the user how they want treating if it hits the fan. Most have explained what to do to many people before.

Digs.

decoweenie

Having actual done this, I would like to add some comments...

Remember that the diver passed out most probably from breathing the loop. And it could be hypoxic (among other possibilities). So bring him up while keeping him on the same loop probably won't help to revive him with the PO2 dropping by ascending.

However, it could be a lot more dangerous to try to switch mouthpiece.

If he has a BOV, switch BOV to OC could help adding fresh gas IF the gas supply is adequate (i.e. shallow depth, connected to large off-board source, etc).

If the gas source is limited and it is possible to run out of supply before reaching the surface - or you simply can't work out the gas source, keep him on the loop and check the PO2 display. Add O2 as needed.

If you can't do all 5 things at once, simply add O2 periodically and slowly as you ascend should keep to maintain the loop breathable if it was on bottom.

Remember to look out for your own PO2 handset as well.

__________________
"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

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Gilles

The library has this amongst many contributions from Verdier.

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/gener...her-diver.html

Rescue exercisesduring trsining has taught me that in practise, extremely difficult to do without putting yourself in danger. Anyone not using a BOV is pretty well not very "save-able" unless

1) victim is already pretty close to the surface
2) have a knowledge-able Rebreather buddy who can maybe regain conciousness of the victim (if he is at least wearing a neckstrap that prevents loss of mouthpeice).
3) A highly skilled Rebreather buddy simultaneously capable of
a) protecting the victims airway
b) managing 4 to 6 air cavities to control bouyancy
c) considers you sufficiently important to risk his/her for you.

BOV's work good. Please get one (money very well spent).

Golem Gear, Inc. - Rebreather BOV - DSV/OC - clamped

__________________
Gilles
http://www.dirrebreather.com

decoweenie

What I did was:

1) Opened his OPV wide open.
2) Reduced the bouyancy sources by dumping my wing and making myself negative. And I could easily control my loop via my mouth.

This allowed me to hang on to the diver and controlled his wing for both of us. If I was to lose my grip, he would still be on surface rather than to drop to depth.

With that, I only had to control 2 bouyancy sources on the diver (i.e. 1 effectively).

I have not had any Rebreather rescue training before that incident, just did whatever made sense at the time. So I am interested to see how this thread turns out as it could be very beneficial to all.

It is a moral question as well.

And you can't never know the feeling until you hold someone unconscious underwater knowing that if you let know, a family is destroyed.

When I thought about what happened later on, it scared the crap out of me...

__________________
"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

- Rebreather World PM

Divechick

It certainly seems that there is scope for training rebreather divers in how to cope with this scenario.

Much respect Decoweenie - - I only hope I would cope as well if the worst came to the worst.

Digger

Massive scope. I tried to get an instructor friend to put together a weekend course on this and other bits to actually do it. I wanted to run rescue drills from deep by the end of it and get divers working as a team to deal with an unconscious casualty. It occured to me that diving in a 3 made a lot of sense with this sort of problem, as while one person is off and upward the other is sending up yellow bags so the boat is right overhead and controlling the speed of ascent where necessary. Only problem is finding two other people who are as interested in getting this sort of thing absolutely nailed.

Digs.

decoweenie

When I have a group of students who do very well in class and needs to be pushed with more challenges, I create a (controlled) Rebreather rescue exercise that involve helping another RB diver from the bottom.

This helps to drive home the skill set of understanding how a Rebreather works, as well as developing the multi-tasking skill set of PO2/buoyancy monitoring.

Each diver gets to play rescuer as well as rescuee so they could think about what they could do better.

Such exercise is outside the scope of the training agenda, but the students usually find it interesting as well as challenging (especially on mCCR units).

__________________
"...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..."

- Rebreather World PM

rdmmdr

i have carried a twelve inch leash clipped to my upper d ring for years in case of rescue. i have never had to use for real, but have practiced with it and found it to make things much easier, especially in high current. the way we always practiced was to clip on, dump the victums bc/wing and use yours for control. Bovs should be a manditory piece of gear for every rig.

rick

Silent

Obviously this very much depends on your instructor, but on my Mod 1 & Mod 3 courses rescue drills for an unconcious diver where practiced. Both as rescuer and also as rescuee.

Perhaps if more instructors where to include this in their training then people would be better prepared in the event the brown stuff hits the whirly thing.