homebuild certifications

wedivebc

When I first started diving rebreather I bought a used draeger dolphin got properly trained and enjoyed the semi quiet world of semi closed rebreather technology. It was not long before the limitations of the rebreather became apparent so I looked for ways to improve it. Fortunately a good friend of mine had just gone down the same path and was able to lead the way to a hybrid KISS/Dolphin marriage that made my Dolphin far more versatile. The problem was I now owned a rebreather that I was no longer qualified to dive. I was able to pass off my Draeger cert card to less rebreather savvy operators or others who knew me and were OK with what I was doing. I eventually sought out this same friend who was also a KISS rebreather instructor and did the training. Unfortunately I was still uncertified although properly trained to dive my unit with its modifications because no agency recognizes what is considered a homebuild.
Every rebreather starts out is someone's basement, garage, back room as a homebuild until the concept takes off and you sell a hundred of them and are able to convince a training agency to certify divers and instructors.
Since most units are based on similar principles this certification should be more generic. It is time that rebreather training become less specific and recognize the fact that a rebreather builder is probably more qualified to dive his unit than many trained off-the-shelf rebreather divers.
This unit specific attitude is akin to making an open circuit diver get a different c-card when they switch from apeks to scubapro regs. Is it a matter of generic Rebreather training being rejected by agencies because they make less money off multiple certs? Is it the insurance companies who want a company with deep pockets to go after when a rebreather fails to support life.
I recently saw a guy on a forum trying to buy blank c-cards to address this problem. This just illustrates how desperate some people are to get certified on their home made rebreathers. I suggest anyone who can build one and dive it is probably qualified to hold a valid c-card.

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Cheers,

Dave....

Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die

Tom Rose

Sorry to disagree but don't you mean that you are uncertified to dive...not unqualified....You just Joined the club...of course you could be unqualified also...there are a lot out there...some even having certificates...no offense intended.

True and they deal with the insurance, trainers etc....I do not envy them one bit.

Maybe...there seems to be a better survival rate...but then do we ever trust the systems we hack together...we probably as a group go a little more slowly than people who buy a rig and are ready for 300 feet of water.

Perhaps as a garage builder, you need to do what the others do....print your own card. You can put any number on it even 007. OOPS did I suggest that? Silly me.

At least having a nice card takes the burden off the dive shop and boat....Since you have just done the same as every training agency...good or bad... has done. Determined what the standards are and trained to meet the standards. After having one bump some years ago, I went the card route...made my own...and as you can see, it is a nice one with my picture. Printed it on metal. Not a lie on it....and since I printed it, no one has ever asked to see a card..... Ain't life interesting and fun.

Tom

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gibbogeo

You are a homebuilder? Homebuild also your C-Card!

The maker of an italian machine issued c-card made by himself for years, before to be recognized by a major certification agency.

Here nobody is able to understand that you modified a dolphin, so with your padi card for dolphin you can dive with whatever you want, if you have the shell of a dolphin on your back.

I bought my dolphin new in a shop without a c-card, i get one when i modified it with the kiss valve. And with the classic kiss i have now, i never have been asked to show a c-card (i made some dive before to have one, but ow i have one, you know sometime i go abroad and there they ask for the certification).

Came diving in Italy!

UWSojourner

I thought you could do "any darn fool thing" you wanted to. You can build anything you want to and dive it as often as you like.

Its just when you start asking others to help you - training agencies, boat operators, fill stations, etc. - that they sort of get legally tainted by some of your actions. And for them to get insurance, the insurance company requires some sort of reasonable risk reduction procedures (e.g. ensuring what you sell goes to people who know how to use it safely).

Its mostly about the legal system and insurance.

That C-card is great Tom!

Tom Rose

That is true until you cause someone else to have liability. If you have your own oxygen, your own boat, shore diving, etc...no problem....

You are right....but it goes a little further...

Not just helping you but participating in your lunacy...face it we are all insane...we cannot breath under water......these are business people...it is just unfair to ask them to share in your insane risk....they don't get paid enough for the trouble.....

And thanks for the comment on the C-card. I thought it was quite nice myself. Looks a lot better than some of the stuff I dive. If it did not have the potential to bring up questions, I would have shown it many times....no reason to poke a hornets nest...

Safe certified diving
Tom

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The 50-50-90 rule: Anytime I have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability I'll get it wrong the first time.

www.atlimp.com

onetime

Love the fact that you're wearing a tshirt and pants in the picture. Classic.

nigelh

The only time anybody asked about the IDA64 I pointed to the badge on my arm with lots of Russian text on it and a picture of a diver wearing something similar. They seemed happy.

I bought the badge on Ebay for a quid to see what it really looked like and then stuck it on the suit as a patch after mice chewed a hole in it and I got all wet.

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nigelh

bletso

I have never been challenged. But then I do a low profile appearance, I don't ask if I can dive my rig, I just show up on the boat all set up. I also tend to dive with the same operators all the time.

Dale

lizardland

I take it you have done the manufacturer's specific training course?

I got booted out of the water at the NDC for diving my homebuild. They weren't bothered that I didn't have a cert, it was because it had no CE approval they said.

I wouldn't automatically assume that a homebuilder is qualified to dive his rebreather. Designing the rebreather might make you aware of unit specific issues but there is no automatic knowledge of general rebreather principles that are common to all rebreathers. There is skill with a certain rebreather and there is general in-water rebreather skill, the two aren't the same.

Cheers,

Stuart

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Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler

Duncan Price

Stuart and I dived there at the same time. I got reprimanded for taking a D5 to 65 m. I employ my CDG ticket which allows me to do what I like.

Thought Police: "Hmm, CDG! That will do nicely. Mind how you go."

BTW - I can exempt my rebreather from CE but claiming that it is rescue equipment (or so says Brian Jopling).

Dr Dunc