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Old 16th March 2007, 12:55   #51 (permalink)
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Re: Crossover Training

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mike) View Original Post
Do you ever take it up with their previous Instructor when you have a student who is not up to your standards?
I wouldn't because I don't blame the instructor unless I saw a pattern of issues with their students. Take an extremely common example seen by nearly every instructor... tables skills. We teach it and we can prove they know it because we test them on it. Yet, for many students they don't practice the skill and it's rapidly lost.... they appear for a follow on course that includes more tables use and we wind up reteaching.

As instructors are fond of saying, a c-card as we issue them today is a 'license to learn'. It's rarely the fault of the instructor if the student doesn't subsequently meet standards. Perhaps the problem lies with the student, perhaps the problem lies with the system of instruction that no longer provides enough time.

To me, the issue of crossover is beginning to align with the 'tolerance for risk' issue that defines how rebreather divers choose to exceed manufacturer duration recommendations for consumables. Some divers understand that a crossover course will reduce risk and don't regret the additional time and money invested in the training to reduce the risk. Others either feel there is no risk to crossing over, or are willing to accept the additional risk for the reward of the time and money saved by not doing a formal crossover.

But if we extend this concept I wonder how many rebreather divers would say that formal training in CCR is a waste of their time. That crossing over from open circuit to CCR can easily be learned by reading a book and 'learning by doing' approach. I've actually heard divers fuss about having to take an expensive course to learn to use a rebreather.
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Old 16th March 2007, 14:02   #52 (permalink)
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Re: Crossover Training

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) View Original Post
The answer is "That's Right".

The follow on is "Why would you have a compromised loop?". Take care of the loop like your life depends on it *because it does* and leave that open circuit mindset at home. Total loop flood? Not.
Because shit happens some times (that nasty Mr Murphey) - a real world example is that I managed to impale my leg on some nice rusty railings in a wreck once - believe me I do take care and try not to make a habit of it but if it happened to my leg then it can happen to other parts of your Rebreather including the loop!

Moving on to the discussion of semi closed, from my article on minimising fatalities - I believe that if something goes wrong with your Rebreather then you should bail out and not try to second guess what bit may or may not be funcitoning.

I accept that you can not carry enouh bail out sometimes but you plan accordingly be it team bailout or stored tanks or even a BOB.

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Old 16th March 2007, 14:28   #53 (permalink)
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Re: Crossover Training

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) View Original Post
Moving on to the discussion of semi closed, from my article on minimising fatalities - I believe that if something goes wrong with your Rebreather then you should bail out and not try to second guess what bit may or may not be funcitoning.I accept that you can not carry enouh bail out sometimes but you plan accordingly be it team bailout or stored tanks or even a BOB. Stuart

Errr......

What works for one does not always work for the other. "Team Bailout" assumes "teams". Stored tank assumes in/out routing (IE caves). Open circuit assumes depths shallow enough to be able to actually carry that gas volume.

Bottom line though is that there are many times when OC is not an option, because that option has been de-selected by the diver.

I wear the same exact architecture used on the moon.... one good rebreather system, with internal backup modes, and virtually no open circuit. Actual milage may vary.

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