Crossover Training

n2diving

What a wide range of opinons on crossover. For myself, when I've taught crossover... It usually goes something like this.... Since the O2ptima arrives pretty much disassembled so a fair amount of time is spent on the assembly with hints and tips and in every case for me so far there has always been tweaking of harnesses, wings, etc.... a fairly lengthy discussion of the cartridge.... I've never crossed over anyone who was already familar with the hammerhead electronics... so that is a long discussion as well.... that all consumes one day. Next, I do a confined water session... this goes really fast but always turns up one or two things that have to be delt with... I also show them side mount bailout and pocketed handset skills.... by the time we drive to the pool, get in, do the skills, get out and dry off etc... there is half a day... and then I've got to get the 200 minutes... hard to do in two dives around here... if we spend 60 minutes in-water at the pool, do a 'two tank' recreational dive trip with two 60 min dives thats another 120 minutes and I'm still short a few minutes.... I can do a 3 hour dive (they put us in first before the '1st tank' and pull us out at the end of the '2nd tank') but then I don't have the two dives.... so it usually winds up being one more trip... thus it seems to take three days.... I charge $600 for that. If my student knew the hammerhead, I guess I could race through the assembly ('Watch me do it, here's a check list, do it yourself tonight, if you have any questions ask me in the morning' but that seems a bit thin) and then do the pool that afternoon, find a 'three tank trip' the next day or do a morning and afternoon trip (which is what I usually do)... two days... that would be less $ right? For an experienced CCR diver, the 200 minutes seems a bit much. Personally, they pretty much have 'got it' after a few minutes in the pool and a dive or two.

JPJones

It will be alright but needs some work.

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Mark Chase

Cross over to the HH was free. I just read the manual. From the HH/Inspo over to the Revo is looking to be about the same as my TDI Mod 1 CCR training with an additional cost for a trimix cert at about 50% of my mod 3 course.

So not cheep considering I already have 300+ hours on a CCR.

All training is a good thing and i am actually have a lot more problems with the time issue, rather than the money issue. That said, do you really need to re train to switch to a new unit ? Are not the basic principles exactly the same? So its just a kit familiarization exercise in truth?

What ever, its put an obstacle in the way of my decision to get the Revo. I now need to find four days in a very busy schedule for the year

ATB

Mark Chase

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Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08
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decoweenie

I was not talking about GENERAL cross-training between units, but merely between someone who is VERY experience with the Inspiration going to the Meg.

Since I am not a Meg instructor, I might be missing a few key-points so would welcome an instructor (who teaches both Insp and Meg) to chime in.

Aside from the flow direction, there is very little difference between the Insp and Meg in the way of general configuration. And I think more efforts should be spend doing cross-over from Meg to Insp since there are more specific assembly steps on the Insp that are not on the Meg.

It only took a few minutes for me to familiar with my Meg. The most amount of time spent was understanding the injection time cycle options of the APECS-2.

IMHO, that doesn't warrant $600-worth of instruction. May be 2 beers...

Now more personal opinion about between units in general...

Having taught cross-over courses when I felt was necessary (i.e. MK-15 or Insp to KISS, for example), I find people are more interested in learning the differences of how the units are built and assembed - when they differ drastically like MK-15, Insp and SK (again, as examples).

Diving-wise, there isn't much to learn except if going from BMCL to OTS-CL, or ECCR to mCCR, etc. If 2 systems are reallly close in general design (like Insp and Meg), it would take a couple of mins to get used to the differences of solenoid injection sound, natural trim characteristics of the unit, DSV, etc.

So, at the end of the day, I am not saying that there is no need for cross-over courses. However IMHO, they are more important when switching between units not close in general design and configuration.

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Steve

I have taught a few crossovers to date. Unfortunately, not one of them was anywhere near the skill level they thought they were. In my mind, if they can demonstrate the required skills the course is a short one (min required by training agency) if they can't it keeps getting longer. Pretty simple really

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decoweenie

Isn't that a different issue all together ?

Obviously, they have passed their original MOD-1 course with a different instructor. This means that the standard required for that instructor to pass MOD-1 is lower than yours.

It is the same here... Someone locally took a free MOD-1 course (since the instructor needed the practice - long story), and was telling afterward that he only did each exercise once while kneeling on the sandy bottom...

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richie

well guys i have just returned from a inspo to meg crossover course with rich Stevenson, now i have 2 years exp 150+ hrs on the inspo 90% trimix 60m-116m depth range with mod 3 and over 10 years diving. i think the meg cross over course is a must , there is a lot more to think about with electronics calibration . it did not take long to master the over skills drills to be preformed while neutrally buoyant. a bailout free assent is trickier because dumping of gass is through the mouth piece.and the opv is way to low to dump gass with minimum loop volume. in my opinion yes cross over is expensive but worth it with a good instuctor.
cheers richie

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schford

Wierd way to teach it and not how Leon does.

Why would you want to faff around opening mouth piece to dump gas when you bail out - sounds a bit fiddly and dangerous in a high task loading situation to me.

All you need to do is give the lungs an occasional squeeze and if you feel the need role slightly to the right and back when doing it.

Stuart

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divetheworld

It seems most crossovers have a lot of "padding out". I suppose if the course is not discribed as a "crossover" but a "skills assesment/refresher and crossover" and crossover then you wouldnt feel so aggreived at shelling out the cash.
But then it should be the choice of the customer as to what he recieves. Maybe thats because its coming from someone who cares little for how may plastic cards he carries but the quality of the information given.
I couldnt care less if I got a card at the end or not as long as I was given the information/training I require. Whether the course meets a certain agencies syllabus or not means little to me.

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Mark Chase

Bearing in mind I use a BOV it would be interesting too.

ATB

Mark Chase

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See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!!

Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08
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