Analytical Industries O2 cell

J. V. · 10th October 2006, 07:50

Since some month I test Analytical Industries sensors on rebreathers. There is no more differences than with Teledyne. It seems Analytical Indutries sensors are good alternative to R22D. Is somebody have made same observations?

Marc T · 10th October 2006, 09:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by J. V.)

Since some month I test Analytical Industries sensors on rebreathers. There is no more differences than with Teledyne. It seems Analytical Indutries sensors are good alternative to R22D. Is somebody have made same observations?

not yet but your post decide me to do the test, tell you later

Thanks Jacques

Marc

***jradomski*** · 10th October 2006, 13:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by J. V.)

Since some month I test Analytical Industries sensors on rebreathers. There is no more differences than with Teledyne. It seems Analytical Indutries sensors are good alternative to R22D. Is somebody have made same observations?

I have been testing a batch of AI cells for a few months now.. They seem to be performing well.. I am glad I had a second look... I tried them a few years ago and didn;t get as good results..

AI has a wide variety of cells, some have minor voltage differences so you can match them up better for your electronics.. for example
the r22d substitute psr-11-39-md is not a good choice for the HH since the guaranteed voltage is only 8.5mv, while the psr-11-39-mhd is a good choice (contrary to their website) since the guaranteed voltage is 9.0 mv

paulraymaekers · 10th October 2006, 14:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

I have been testing a batch of AI cells for a few months now.. They seem to be performing well.. I am glad I had a second look... I tried thema few years ago and didn;t get as good results..

AI has a wide variety of cells, some have minor voltage differences so you can match them up better for your electronics.. for example
the r22d substitute psr-11-39-md is not a good choice for the HH since the guaranteed voltage is only 8.5mv, while the psr-11-39-mhd is a good choice (contraty to their website) since the guaranteed voltage is 9.0 mv

same experience here, we will ship the rEvo II with AI cells psr-11-39-rEvo: a bit more expencive, but minimum 9.5 mV, so w're shure the rEvodreams always work, even after some time!

regards
paul

Genesis · 10th October 2006, 15:22

Unfortunately it appears that the US "source" for this passed some time back.... is anyone planning on picking this up for the States in the near future?

**RichClark** · 10th October 2006, 16:02

And likewise, who is the distibutor in the UK/Europe???

Cheesr

Rich

Marc T · 10th October 2006, 16:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

And likewise, who is the distibutor in the UK/Europe???

Cheesr

Rich

Tauchen - Cave, Nitrox, Rebreather Ausbildung, Tec Ausrüstung, Reisen

**RichClark** · 10th October 2006, 16:41

Thanks,

I should have thought to look there.

Cheers

Rich

jaap · 10th October 2006, 20:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

I have been testing a batch of AI cells for a few months now.. They seem to be performing well.. I am glad I had a second look... I tried them a few years ago and didn;t get as good results..

AI has a wide variety of cells, some have minor voltage differences so you can match them up better for your electronics.. for example
the r22d substitute psr-11-39-md is not a good choice for the HH since the guaranteed voltage is only 8.5mv, while the psr-11-39-mhd is a good choice (contrary to their website) since the guaranteed voltage is 9.0 mv

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

same experience here, we will ship the rEvo II with AI cells psr-11-39-rEvo: a bit more expencive, but minimum 9.5 mV, so w're shure the rEvodreams always work, even after some time!

regards
paul

OK so I have been thinking about this low/high mV-test that several PO2-systems include.

I'm not convinced that a cell reading a higher mV is always a better cell and that a slightly low mV really gives any sign that a cell is bad. Ofcourse if the mV is way high or very low the cell is failing.

But is buying cells with a higher guaranteed minimum mV really making the cells more reliable? Or is it just a 'trick' to help pass the mV-test of certain units?

If its just a trick to make it pass the test, then why are the systems designed the way they are?

I understand that a low mV output can be problematic for the amplifier? But is that all of the reason? And if so, why not design for higher output cells then?

I suspect I will get to hear that cells with a slightly low air mV, say 7-8 mV are out of specs and not safe. But my _very limited_ experience from testing something like 8-9 cells does not support that.
(Teledyne-R22D, Siemens-R22style and psr-11-39md)

None of them dropped out of linearity up to pO2 1.8 (max 3% error at 1.8 with cal at po2 1, dry testing/cal, fixed Temp) until the air mV was under ~6.5 mV.

On the other hand I did recently experience a cell that read a high 13 mV after a few months and did not pass a linearity check at all with a displayed po2 ~0.4 in _air_ after 1 bar O2 cal.

So my personal view is that a mV-test and a single point cal is not something to base a fail/pass test on, and that actually verifying the linearity (2-point testing) is more important (If possible at a pO2 >1.4).

paulraymaekers · 10th October 2006, 21:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap)

OK so I have been thinking about this low/high mV-test that several PO2-systems include.

I'm not convinced that a cell reading a higher mV is always a better cell and that a slightly low mV really gives any sign that a cell is bad. Ofcourse if the mV is way high or very low the cell is failing.

But is buying cells with a higher guaranteed minimum mV really making the cells more reliable? Or is it just a 'trick' to help pass the mV-test of certain units?

If its just a trick to make it pass the test, then why are the systems designed the way they are?

I understand that a low mV output can be problematic for the amplifier? But is that all of the reason? And if so, why not design for higher output cells then?

I suspect I will get to hear that cells with a slightly low air mV, say 7-8 mV are out of specs and not safe. But my _very limited_ experience from testing something like 8-9 cells does not support that.
(Teledyne-R22D, Siemens-R22style and psr-11-39md)

None of them dropped out of linearity up to pO2 1.8 (max 3% error at 1.8 with cal at po2 1, dry testing/cal, fixed Temp) until the air mV was under ~6.5 mV.

On the other hand I did recently experience a cell that read a high 13 mV after a few months and did not pass a linearity check at all with a displayed po2 ~0.4 in _air_ after 1 bar O2 cal.

So my personal view is that a mV-test and a single point cal is not something to base a fail/pass test on, and that actually verifying the linearity (2-point testing) is more important (If possible at a pO2 >1.4).

I can follow your argument, but the main reason the rEvodream demands celloutput of 40 til 63mV in pur ox, is to narrow the possible input range: so that if you do something wrong during calibration, (bad flush), the (bad)calibration can not be to far off, if so, the unit will refuse calibration

regards
paul

10th October 2006, 07:50	#1 (permalink)
J. V. RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet rEvo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lot & Savoie Posts: 249	Analytical Industries O2 cell Since some month I test Analytical Industries sensors on rebreathers. There is no more differences than with Teledyne. It seems Analytical Indutries sensors are good alternative to R22D. Is somebody have made same observations? __________________ -------------------- Jacques NPSFQQA-EDS IT # 007 (remué non agité)
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10th October 2006, 09:08	#2 (permalink)
Marc T hell is in the details Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FRANCE Carcassonne Posts: 498	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell Quote: (Originally Posted by J. V.) Since some month I test Analytical Industries sensors on rebreathers. There is no more differences than with Teledyne. It seems Analytical Indutries sensors are good alternative to R22D. Is somebody have made same observations? not yet but your post decide me to do the test, tell you later Thanks Jacques Marc
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10th October 2006, 13:26	#3 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell Quote: (Originally Posted by J. V.) Since some month I test Analytical Industries sensors on rebreathers. There is no more differences than with Teledyne. It seems Analytical Indutries sensors are good alternative to R22D. Is somebody have made same observations? I have been testing a batch of AI cells for a few months now.. They seem to be performing well.. I am glad I had a second look... I tried them a few years ago and didn;t get as good results.. AI has a wide variety of cells, some have minor voltage differences so you can match them up better for your electronics.. for example the r22d substitute psr-11-39-md is not a good choice for the HH since the guaranteed voltage is only 8.5mv, while the psr-11-39-mhd is a good choice (contrary to their website) since the guaranteed voltage is 9.0 mv __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 10th October 2006 at 14:09.
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10th October 2006, 14:00	#4 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,637	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) I have been testing a batch of AI cells for a few months now.. They seem to be performing well.. I am glad I had a second look... I tried thema few years ago and didn;t get as good results.. AI has a wide variety of cells, some have minor voltage differences so you can match them up better for your electronics.. for example the r22d substitute psr-11-39-md is not a good choice for the HH since the guaranteed voltage is only 8.5mv, while the psr-11-39-mhd is a good choice (contraty to their website) since the guaranteed voltage is 9.0 mv same experience here, we will ship the rEvo II with AI cells psr-11-39-rEvo: a bit more expencive, but minimum 9.5 mV, so w're shure the rEvodreams always work, even after some time! regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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10th October 2006, 15:22	#5 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,453	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell Unfortunately it appears that the US "source" for this passed some time back.... is anyone planning on picking this up for the States in the near future? __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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10th October 2006, 16:02	#6 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 793	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell And likewise, who is the distibutor in the UK/Europe??? Cheesr Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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10th October 2006, 16:29	#7 (permalink)
Marc T hell is in the details Current Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet RB80 / Clone Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: FRANCE Carcassonne Posts: 498	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) And likewise, who is the distibutor in the UK/Europe??? Cheesr Rich Tauchen - Cave, Nitrox, Rebreather Ausbildung, Tec Ausrüstung, Reisen
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10th October 2006, 16:41	#8 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 793	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell Thanks, I should have thought to look there. Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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10th October 2006, 20:34	#9 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 472	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) I have been testing a batch of AI cells for a few months now.. They seem to be performing well.. I am glad I had a second look... I tried them a few years ago and didn;t get as good results.. AI has a wide variety of cells, some have minor voltage differences so you can match them up better for your electronics.. for example the r22d substitute psr-11-39-md is not a good choice for the HH since the guaranteed voltage is only 8.5mv, while the psr-11-39-mhd is a good choice (contrary to their website) since the guaranteed voltage is 9.0 mv Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) same experience here, we will ship the rEvo II with AI cells psr-11-39-rEvo: a bit more expencive, but minimum 9.5 mV, so w're shure the rEvodreams always work, even after some time! regards paul OK so I have been thinking about this low/high mV-test that several PO2-systems include. I'm not convinced that a cell reading a higher mV is always a better cell and that a slightly low mV really gives any sign that a cell is bad. Ofcourse if the mV is way high or very low the cell is failing. But is buying cells with a higher guaranteed minimum mV really making the cells more reliable? Or is it just a 'trick' to help pass the mV-test of certain units? If its just a trick to make it pass the test, then why are the systems designed the way they are? I understand that a low mV output can be problematic for the amplifier? But is that all of the reason? And if so, why not design for higher output cells then? I suspect I will get to hear that cells with a slightly low air mV, say 7-8 mV are out of specs and not safe. But my _very limited_ experience from testing something like 8-9 cells does not support that. (Teledyne-R22D, Siemens-R22style and psr-11-39md) None of them dropped out of linearity up to pO2 1.8 (max 3% error at 1.8 with cal at po2 1, dry testing/cal, fixed Temp) until the air mV was under ~6.5 mV. On the other hand I did recently experience a cell that read a high 13 mV after a few months and did not pass a linearity check at all with a displayed po2 ~0.4 in _air_ after 1 bar O2 cal. So my personal view is that a mV-test and a single point cal is not something to base a fail/pass test on, and that actually verifying the linearity (2-point testing) is more important (If possible at a pO2 >1.4). __________________ My initials: JAAP
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10th October 2006, 21:04	#10 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,637	Re: Analytical Industries O2 cell Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap) OK so I have been thinking about this low/high mV-test that several PO2-systems include. I'm not convinced that a cell reading a higher mV is always a better cell and that a slightly low mV really gives any sign that a cell is bad. Ofcourse if the mV is way high or very low the cell is failing. But is buying cells with a higher guaranteed minimum mV really making the cells more reliable? Or is it just a 'trick' to help pass the mV-test of certain units? If its just a trick to make it pass the test, then why are the systems designed the way they are? I understand that a low mV output can be problematic for the amplifier? But is that all of the reason? And if so, why not design for higher output cells then? I suspect I will get to hear that cells with a slightly low air mV, say 7-8 mV are out of specs and not safe. But my _very limited_ experience from testing something like 8-9 cells does not support that. (Teledyne-R22D, Siemens-R22style and psr-11-39md) None of them dropped out of linearity up to pO2 1.8 (max 3% error at 1.8 with cal at po2 1, dry testing/cal, fixed Temp) until the air mV was under ~6.5 mV. On the other hand I did recently experience a cell that read a high 13 mV after a few months and did not pass a linearity check at all with a displayed po2 ~0.4 in _air_ after 1 bar O2 cal. So my personal view is that a mV-test and a single point cal is not something to base a fail/pass test on, and that actually verifying the linearity (2-point testing) is more important (If possible at a pO2 >1.4). I can follow your argument, but the main reason the rEvodream demands celloutput of 40 til 63mV in pur ox, is to narrow the possible input range: so that if you do something wrong during calibration, (bad flush), the (bad)calibration can not be to far off, if so, the unit will refuse calibration regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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