HammerHead Revisions and Issues

Tecdiverfl · 4th August 2006, 20:09

Joe

Can you post of picture of the cap should look it after the threads have been crushed.

Thanks

Marty

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 5th August 2006, 02:06

I'd like to see that, too. Also, I am not sure about just how to place the pliers over the threads (aim tip from outside--the part where the spring rests against the battery--toward the cap, straddling the rim?

***jradomski*** · 5th August 2006, 03:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

I'd like to see that, too. Also, I am not sure about just how to place the pliers over the threads (aim tip from outside--the part where the spring rests against the battery--toward the cap, straddling the rim?

The crushing depth is not overly critical, you are just trying to creat a line of flat spots on the threads.. Aim tip from battery side towards cap so the that after a squeeze the threads on that squeeze from the rim to the cap have all been flattened out just a bit.. repeat this 3 more times.. I'll try a get around to taking a picture, but its really not that evident without really close inspection.. You are just trying to get the "points" off of the thread and making it flatter/wider at that point..

Mark Chase · 5th August 2006, 07:24

I crimped my ones and i ended up with a battery cap that looks like a hexigon

Fortunately there is so much slap in the threads it still screws in no problem.

No problems with rebooting on the dive since moving over to the silver grease and the crimped threads but yesterday i did a dive on a fresh battery 55m run time 125min. After the dive the hand sets appeared to shut down OK (thanks to the big wadge of silicone in the sensors.

After washing the unit that night and removing the head it fired up and immediately started going into crash reboot mode

Either the battery is shagged in one dive or it lost contact some were.

Try as i might i couldn't get the unit to "switch off solenoid" mode. It just wouldn't stay awake long enough.

The soft ware MUST be improved to shut off the unit and keep it shut off when the voltage drops to X point. Flying the unit out on the second hand set is no problem at all but the master reboot and 02 inject is a BIG problem.

ATB

Mark Chase

***jradomski*** · 5th August 2006, 07:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I crimped my ones and i ended up with a battery cap that looks like a hexigon

Fortunately there is so much slap in the threads it still screws in no problem.

No problems with rebooting on the dive since moving over to the silver grease and the crimped threads but yesterday i did a dive on a fresh battery 55m run time 125min. After the dive the hand sets appeared to shut down OK (thanks to the big wadge of silicone in the sensors.

After washing the unit that night and removing the head it fired up and immediately started going into crash reboot mode

Either the battery is shagged in one dive or it lost contact some were.

Try as i might i couldn't get the unit to "switch off solenoid" mode. It just wouldn't stay awake long enough.

The soft ware MUST be improved to shut off the unit and keep it shut off when the voltage drops to X point. Flying the unit out on the second hand set is no problem at all but the master reboot and 02 inject is a BIG problem.

ATB

Mark Chase

Mark,

2 suggestions,

1) I always switch it to oc mode once I am off the loop, just in case the unit powers up so then the solenoid wount fire as long as the loop is above 0.19

2) if it goes into this power up/down mode, get the po2 above the default taget 0.7 and wait until after the first fire is done before trying anything, if you try and keep the backlight on and the solenoid at the same time and the battery is weak it will reboot..

if it came down to having to stay on the loop and the master keeps rebooting just flood the battery compartment, the water wount go anywhere else and you can clean it up after the dive.. unless the battery is really on the edge of life you should be able to get in and switch the solenoid off or switch to oc mode, but if it rebooted before you try and do anything the po2 should be above a 0.7 and the solenoid must not be firing..

I think the software should disable the solenoid should the voltage drop below some set value.. This will work fine for Alkaline cells, but not for the 3.6v cell without another option telling the controller what battery is in use..

PCDiver · 5th August 2006, 08:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

if it came down to having to stay on the loop and the master keeps rebooting just flood the battery compartment, the water wount go anywhere else and you can clean it up after the dive..

Wow, that is a draconian solution.
I have the feeling that we are trying to find fixes, some more extreme than the other, for something that Kevin needs to solve.

Solutions:

manual switch off
proper battery management
no solenoid test by the primary after reboot when submerged
perhaps selection of battery type by the user
a proper battery cap like the one used in the VR3
move the deco calculations to the secondary, so when the primary reboots all deco info is not lost

There is another problem with the battery cap. Last time I replaced my battery I found lots of white powder on the threads. It wasn't salt or sand but corrosion, probably because the batery cap is SS and the housing is aluminium. It can be cleaned out but will not improve conduction. A VR3 like battery cap will solve this.

Claudio · 5th August 2006, 08:42

I would want to ask Mark Chase which type of silver grease he uses (mgchemicals?). I have known the existence of the product only from three days, but in my city I have not found it. In Italy (on the Web) there are some products, that they are illustrates like termoconductive, but not elettroconductive, therefore he does not adapt for our scope.
For Joe: if you have difficulty to illustrate the issue of the "Flatting the threads" with a photo, could make a small schematic design and then to photograph it…
Claudio

***jradomski*** · 5th August 2006, 09:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver)

Wow, that is a draconian solution.
I have the feeling that we are trying to find fixes, some more extreme than the other, for something that Kevin needs to solve.

I have never had a battery life issue because I use lithium cells, but of it came down to being able to stay on the loop, I'll choose to flood the battery.. My safety is first, so piece of electronic gear is secondary..

I don't think the vr3 battery cap is any better... it had its issues for a few years.. The Al HH units have only been out about 8 months, and it looks like most of the tbls have been isolated... He is having alternate material battery caps being made for test and my change in the future..

You will NEVER see a manual power off, its against his safety philosophy.. I agree here..

personally I like the deco on the primary (gives me one place to look for everything and allows the secondary to be a realtime po2 display), if moved to the secondary it would mean a dive would really be using that as the primary and the priomary is only a sp controller.. has its promises but now makes switching modes more of a hassle especially in times of emergency..

There are ways to preserve the deco info (up to a point), its just more development time..

I would love to see some type of battery monitoring to get full life out of cells, but I have dove the HH since the beginning and have never had any battery issues except maybe I change the cells a bit earlier than I have to..

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 5th August 2006, 20:27

If anyone is reporting a problem, please specify which handset you have (nickel, anodized, etc.). Some of these things are known issues with various sets. However, my particular interest is in finding out which issues pertain to which sets (because I will especially tune in to issues with the new cases.) So, it woud clarify things if anyone reporting issues would state with which cases (and even software revision if relevant) they are having the problem. Thanks.

Since getting my sets changed over to the anodized aluminum cases (and correcting the initial leak issue that some sets had), everything seems to be working fine for my sets (though I didn't have the reboot issue even on the nickel plated sets). I have been using the carbon grease as an added measure though I was not having the issue before. Before adding the carbon grease, I cleaned the spring, cap, battery compartments and contacts with ProGold.

I have used the Saft batteries for liveaboards. However, at home, I usually dive once per week or so. During these times, I put in a set of Duracells, dive for about two to two and a half hours over the course of two dives (with about 30 minutes to one hour surface interval), and they seem to be fine. In fact, I take the sets home, soak for a while in Salt-X and then fresh water (which means that they are on during this time), and then leave the same battery set in for the remainder of the week, doing all of my next outing's testing on the day of my next dive (meaning the about six to seven days after the dive outing from the prior week). I then put in a fresh set just before heading over to the dive boat.

Note that I tend to fly my unit manually other than to test the solenoid when I am pre-breathing, just before entering the water. So, that might have something to do with the amount of battery life I am getting.

I would still like to see some kind of battery monitor, and I would like a way to put both units to sleep (instead of just the primary) so that I can save some battery life in the secondary without having to wait for it to shut down.

bellamygdj · 21st August 2006, 01:30

Ive added this thread from the old posting.

I love my acrilic handsets REV A (5.3) on my homebuild (fgt case errol hardings rebreathers australia scrubber/lungs) i use the recommmended saft lithium cells in them,(and tekcell) they work a treat, nil probs, Ive added a thicker O ring to the battery compartment, so the threads bite better and get a better connection without having to over tighten them and thus cause any damage.

Im undecided about Battery monitor, why try and screw an extra dive outa a couple of batteries, to save a buck here and there, but spend a dive worrying if the battery is going to fail, bollocks to that, put fresh one's in, stick to the recommendations.

the rev A sets dont have a sleep option, but would be nice, but hey, the extra costs to upgrade handsets just for some extra battery life...you do the math.

I totally disagree with having a manual off option, Im not fail safe, my wife doesnt even trust me.

ive isolated the solonoid with a simple 2 way swagelok valve, so I can run the rig via a manual add on a seperate feed, so for me having the deco/control on one and secondary on the other a very important feature of the HH.

My wife also likes the xtra muscle mass Ive gained on my bicepts by having the acrilic handsets strapped to my arms. Ive not had any problems with the fischer connections (yet)

So there you are, a satisfied customer... no floods, no drama's...touch wood (and no bezzle corrosion), it may look a bit agricultural, but I like the plastic.

thanks Kevin

4th August 2006, 20:09	#41 (permalink)
Tecdiverfl New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delray Beach, FL Posts: 67	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Joe Can you post of picture of the cap should look it after the threads have been crushed. Thanks Marty
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5th August 2006, 02:06	#42 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,896	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues I'd like to see that, too. Also, I am not sure about just how to place the pliers over the threads (aim tip from outside--the part where the spring rests against the battery--toward the cap, straddling the rim? __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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5th August 2006, 03:12	#43 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,798	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) I'd like to see that, too. Also, I am not sure about just how to place the pliers over the threads (aim tip from outside--the part where the spring rests against the battery--toward the cap, straddling the rim? The crushing depth is not overly critical, you are just trying to creat a line of flat spots on the threads.. Aim tip from battery side towards cap so the that after a squeeze the threads on that squeeze from the rim to the cap have all been flattened out just a bit.. repeat this 3 more times.. I'll try a get around to taking a picture, but its really not that evident without really close inspection.. You are just trying to get the "points" off of the thread and making it flatter/wider at that point.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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5th August 2006, 07:24	#44 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,417	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues I crimped my ones and i ended up with a battery cap that looks like a hexigon Fortunately there is so much slap in the threads it still screws in no problem. No problems with rebooting on the dive since moving over to the silver grease and the crimped threads but yesterday i did a dive on a fresh battery 55m run time 125min. After the dive the hand sets appeared to shut down OK (thanks to the big wadge of silicone in the sensors. After washing the unit that night and removing the head it fired up and immediately started going into crash reboot mode Either the battery is shagged in one dive or it lost contact some were. Try as i might i couldn't get the unit to "switch off solenoid" mode. It just wouldn't stay awake long enough. The soft ware MUST be improved to shut off the unit and keep it shut off when the voltage drops to X point. Flying the unit out on the second hand set is no problem at all but the master reboot and 02 inject is a BIG problem. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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5th August 2006, 07:53	#45 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,798	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I crimped my ones and i ended up with a battery cap that looks like a hexigon Fortunately there is so much slap in the threads it still screws in no problem. No problems with rebooting on the dive since moving over to the silver grease and the crimped threads but yesterday i did a dive on a fresh battery 55m run time 125min. After the dive the hand sets appeared to shut down OK (thanks to the big wadge of silicone in the sensors. After washing the unit that night and removing the head it fired up and immediately started going into crash reboot mode Either the battery is shagged in one dive or it lost contact some were. Try as i might i couldn't get the unit to "switch off solenoid" mode. It just wouldn't stay awake long enough. The soft ware MUST be improved to shut off the unit and keep it shut off when the voltage drops to X point. Flying the unit out on the second hand set is no problem at all but the master reboot and 02 inject is a BIG problem. ATB Mark Chase Mark, 2 suggestions, 1) I always switch it to oc mode once I am off the loop, just in case the unit powers up so then the solenoid wount fire as long as the loop is above 0.19 2) if it goes into this power up/down mode, get the po2 above the default taget 0.7 and wait until after the first fire is done before trying anything, if you try and keep the backlight on and the solenoid at the same time and the battery is weak it will reboot.. if it came down to having to stay on the loop and the master keeps rebooting just flood the battery compartment, the water wount go anywhere else and you can clean it up after the dive.. unless the battery is really on the edge of life you should be able to get in and switch the solenoid off or switch to oc mode, but if it rebooted before you try and do anything the po2 should be above a 0.7 and the solenoid must not be firing.. I think the software should disable the solenoid should the voltage drop below some set value.. This will work fine for Alkaline cells, but not for the 3.6v cell without another option telling the controller what battery is in use.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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5th August 2006, 08:17	#46 (permalink)
PCDiver Submerge Productions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 885	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) if it came down to having to stay on the loop and the master keeps rebooting just flood the battery compartment, the water wount go anywhere else and you can clean it up after the dive.. Wow, that is a draconian solution. I have the feeling that we are trying to find fixes, some more extreme than the other, for something that Kevin needs to solve. Solutions: manual switch off proper battery management no solenoid test by the primary after reboot when submerged perhaps selection of battery type by the user a proper battery cap like the one used in the VR3 move the deco calculations to the secondary, so when the primary reboots all deco info is not lost There is another problem with the battery cap. Last time I replaced my battery I found lots of white powder on the threads. It wasn't salt or sand but corrosion, probably because the batery cap is SS and the housing is aluminium. It can be cleaned out but will not improve conduction. A VR3 like battery cap will solve this.
(Online)

5th August 2006, 08:42	#47 (permalink)
Claudio New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ITALY - Trento Posts: 57	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues I would want to ask Mark Chase which type of silver grease he uses (mgchemicals?). I have known the existence of the product only from three days, but in my city I have not found it. In Italy (on the Web) there are some products, that they are illustrates like termoconductive, but not elettroconductive, therefore he does not adapt for our scope. For Joe: if you have difficulty to illustrate the issue of the "Flatting the threads" with a photo, could make a small schematic design and then to photograph it… Claudio
(Online)

5th August 2006, 09:21	#48 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,798	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by PCDiver) Wow, that is a draconian solution. I have the feeling that we are trying to find fixes, some more extreme than the other, for something that Kevin needs to solve. I have never had a battery life issue because I use lithium cells, but of it came down to being able to stay on the loop, I'll choose to flood the battery.. My safety is first, so piece of electronic gear is secondary.. I don't think the vr3 battery cap is any better... it had its issues for a few years.. The Al HH units have only been out about 8 months, and it looks like most of the tbls have been isolated... He is having alternate material battery caps being made for test and my change in the future.. You will NEVER see a manual power off, its against his safety philosophy.. I agree here.. personally I like the deco on the primary (gives me one place to look for everything and allows the secondary to be a realtime po2 display), if moved to the secondary it would mean a dive would really be using that as the primary and the priomary is only a sp controller.. has its promises but now makes switching modes more of a hassle especially in times of emergency.. There are ways to preserve the deco info (up to a point), its just more development time.. I would love to see some type of battery monitoring to get full life out of cells, but I have dove the HH since the beginning and have never had any battery issues except maybe I change the cells a bit earlier than I have to.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 5th August 2006 at 09:37.
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5th August 2006, 20:27	#49 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,896	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues If anyone is reporting a problem, please specify which handset you have (nickel, anodized, etc.). Some of these things are known issues with various sets. However, my particular interest is in finding out which issues pertain to which sets (because I will especially tune in to issues with the new cases.) So, it woud clarify things if anyone reporting issues would state with which cases (and even software revision if relevant) they are having the problem. Thanks. Since getting my sets changed over to the anodized aluminum cases (and correcting the initial leak issue that some sets had), everything seems to be working fine for my sets (though I didn't have the reboot issue even on the nickel plated sets). I have been using the carbon grease as an added measure though I was not having the issue before. Before adding the carbon grease, I cleaned the spring, cap, battery compartments and contacts with ProGold. I have used the Saft batteries for liveaboards. However, at home, I usually dive once per week or so. During these times, I put in a set of Duracells, dive for about two to two and a half hours over the course of two dives (with about 30 minutes to one hour surface interval), and they seem to be fine. In fact, I take the sets home, soak for a while in Salt-X and then fresh water (which means that they are on during this time), and then leave the same battery set in for the remainder of the week, doing all of my next outing's testing on the day of my next dive (meaning the about six to seven days after the dive outing from the prior week). I then put in a fresh set just before heading over to the dive boat. Note that I tend to fly my unit manually other than to test the solenoid when I am pre-breathing, just before entering the water. So, that might have something to do with the amount of battery life I am getting. I would still like to see some kind of battery monitor, and I would like a way to put both units to sleep (instead of just the primary) so that I can save some battery life in the secondary without having to wait for it to shut down. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com Last edited by ScubaDadMiami : 5th August 2006 at 20:37.
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21st August 2006, 01:30	#50 (permalink)
bellamygdj New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: hamilton Posts: 33	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Ive added this thread from the old posting. I love my acrilic handsets REV A (5.3) on my homebuild (fgt case errol hardings rebreathers australia scrubber/lungs) i use the recommmended saft lithium cells in them,(and tekcell) they work a treat, nil probs, Ive added a thicker O ring to the battery compartment, so the threads bite better and get a better connection without having to over tighten them and thus cause any damage. Im undecided about Battery monitor, why try and screw an extra dive outa a couple of batteries, to save a buck here and there, but spend a dive worrying if the battery is going to fail, bollocks to that, put fresh one's in, stick to the recommendations. the rev A sets dont have a sleep option, but would be nice, but hey, the extra costs to upgrade handsets just for some extra battery life...you do the math. I totally disagree with having a manual off option, Im not fail safe, my wife doesnt even trust me. ive isolated the solonoid with a simple 2 way swagelok valve, so I can run the rig via a manual add on a seperate feed, so for me having the deco/control on one and secondary on the other a very important feature of the HH. My wife also likes the xtra muscle mass Ive gained on my bicepts by having the acrilic handsets strapped to my arms. Ive not had any problems with the fischer connections (yet) So there you are, a satisfied customer... no floods, no drama's...touch wood (and no bezzle corrosion), it may look a bit agricultural, but I like the plastic. thanks Kevin __________________ Born to Kerplonk
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