HammerHead Revisions and Issues

***jradomski*** · 22nd June 2006, 16:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by henckell)

I can't understand why the difference in current consumption/battery life is so big between the HH and other computers/controllers. Some manufacturers claim hundreds of hours of diving or years of standby and of course different batteries have different specs, but is the difference (even under good circumstances for the HH) something that should be expected?

The numbers really arent that diifferent once you start looking at the power sources used and the wattage they are able to deliever..

if you are comparing a single AA alkaline cell against a 5 pack, you should compare the life of 5 battery changes against a pack of 5.. The 5 changes would be less - because the smaller voltage cells need to deliever more peak current which derates cells faster but its a fairer comparison.. Thats one of the reasons why a 3.6v AA in the HH lasts longer than even 3 standard AA cell changes...

Look at the CRP2s used my the Insp.. these have a wattage rating about 30% higher than a single 3.6v saft but doesnt last as long... I know I have done 3 weeks of every day diving on a HH (but usually only go 2 weeks for safety), I have never even come close to that on an Insp..

Also compare things like is there an LCD display?, If so is it viewable all the time or does it go to sleep independent of the controller... Size of the display, the larger (physically - not number of characters/lines), usually the more current needed for the backlight and display..

If we look at DC, the VR3 is a good comparison since it can use a single AA as well.. If I take a HH and wake it up every day, I get 3-4 weeks on a AA cell, If I do this to a vr3 (I only tried it on one unit, and 2 different times) which has a smaller display I got 4-5 weeks.. Not much of a difference there..

If you didn't have to track time (integrated DC) then you could stay in standby for much longer time.... on the HH constantly checking the depth sensor does use up resources, once the depth check is eliminated battery life should increase..

***jradomski*** · 22nd June 2006, 18:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by henckell)

I have had some restart problems with all the versions I have used, but only on the primary. Never the secondary.

I have had it happen on the new secondary..

The restart due to battery voltage (not a bad contact), will usually only happen when the solenoid AND backlight are on together.. In fact, a unit that restarts, will still maintain SP (for a reasonable time) as long as you don't activate the backlight and solenoid at the same time.

This only happens on Rev B and Later, the original Rev A units were immune to this problem, without the charge pump, the voltage supplied by the batteries (2 x 3.6v cells) were always able to supply enough voltage to keep the processor running, however the display would dim, especially when the solenoid tried to fire.. You would reach a point where the controller was still on but couldn't get the solenoid to fire.

Solution for continual "restarts" due to low battery and NOT usually contact problems.. (but it is worth trying the procedure anyway since there IS a chance there is continuity, just not enough to supply the necessary current)

DO NOT attempt to press any of the buttons to change the SP (it will reset to the default setpoint on powerup, not the target) while the system is starting up..
once its ready MANUALLY bring the SP above the target (.1 above is a good point), then quickly change the sp to the desired target and stop pressing the buttons once its confirmed, now avoid using the buttons until the dive is completed.... If you dont do it this way, the solenoid WILL fire before the backlight goes off and the unit will RESET again.

If you MUST get into the screens, manually raise the SP above the target, high enough to cover how long you anticipate being in the menus (and keep it there).

The lower the battery supply voltage the greater the demand for current placed on the battery.. Think of it this way, if the backlight needs 100ma at 5v, and the battery voltage is currently 1V, that means the instantaneous demand could be 500ma at 1v.

Also some of these buck/boost converters can put high initial power demands until stable.. A draw of 3A-5A is not unheard of The HH is not this high (I have measured over 1A though)

***jradomski*** · 22nd June 2006, 18:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by henckell)

The HUD is nice but I can´t tell the difference between the colours at depth. I only use the "user SP mode" and note the frequency of the blinks.

I too have trouble seeing the color differences unless the surroundings are really dark.. Something that helps is to make a hood for the DIVA, out od wiring insulator or even a hose protector so that the led is about 1cm or so inside this hood.

Mark Chase · 22nd June 2006, 20:54

Like this

ATB

Mark Chase

cys · 22nd June 2006, 21:10

It would be nice if the unit displayed the NDL time, in place of "no stop." It would also be nice if one could choose 0 seconds (off) for the backlight timer.

***jradomski*** · 23rd June 2006, 04:29

CONDUCTIVE LUBRICANT APPLICATION.

step 1:
Clean all contact surfaces with progold or a vinegar solution. These are not delicate surfaces like the gold plated molex and banana conectors so no special precautions need to be followed. Keep vinegar solutions and progold off the annodizing of the handsets.
The SOCKET on the handset MUST be cleaned of all oxidation.. Failure to do this result in intermittent operation.

Step 2:
Put some conductive grease in the cap so that the spring can sit in it.. the grease will protect the socket, spring and cap from oxidation.

Step 3:
Sparingly apply grease across threads on cap.. the idea is to get just enough lubricant on the threads and in the gaps so when it is screwed down the voids will be filled.. If you heavily cover everything, the excess lubricant will be forced out and get all over the place.. LESS iS BETTER.

Most versions of this type of lubricant ARE O-ring safe.. In some applications it is used as the lubricant for the orings (mostly for EMI protection).. I do not know how it would effect the sealing in a pressure enviroment so I wouldn't PURPOSEDLY put it there, but I HAVE had it get on the orings of my Explorer and had no problems (discovered it on the next battery change)..

As long as the lubricant doesnt get contaminated, I would not worry about replacing it.. Just leave it there..

I don't think its necessary to put it on the spring/battery interface.. It couln't hurt, but this stuff is messy and I don't recommend using it more than necessary.. You DON'T want it to end up in the bottom of the battery compartment where it could short the positive terminal to the rest of the compartment.

I have used this type of lubricant for years.. Since I started using it ,I have never had my HS Explorer reset, and it stopped the intermittent lockups I used to get on the VR3. Once it is applied, you just need to inspect it for irregularities, and possibly some additional addition.

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 23rd June 2006, 05:17

Thank you for the information.

zmcave · 20th July 2006, 23:27

hi guys,

since I was unable to find a contact cleaner without petroleum derivates down here (and that small deoxIt doesn't look like lasting a lot) a friend of mine that fixes cell phones for motorola told me he uses isopropyl alcohol (I think that's the name in english) to clean his contacts!

Are there any know issues about using it on the HH electronics and in the electronics head? concentration is 99% I think.

thanks,

Zé.

bellamygdj · 21st July 2006, 01:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Like this

ATB

Mark Chase

nICE one Mark....!, do you mind if I copy your Idea?, of course I will give full credit on the retail packs....sorry...I...mean if anyone asks that is

***jradomski*** · 21st July 2006, 03:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by zmcave)

hi guys,

since I was unable to find a contact cleaner without petroleum derivates down here (and that small deoxIt doesn't look like lasting a lot) a friend of mine that fixes cell phones for motorola told me he uses isopropyl alcohol (I think that's the name in english) to clean his contacts!

Are there any know issues about using it on the HH electronics and in the electronics head? concentration is 99% I think.

thanks,

Zé.

Depends on what type of cleaning is necessary.. It will remove most contaminates but wont remove most oxidation.. Use a diluted white vinegar solution for a few minutes then you can rinse it with the alchohol (it will dry much faster than water)..

22nd June 2006, 16:51	#11 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by henckell) I can't understand why the difference in current consumption/battery life is so big between the HH and other computers/controllers. Some manufacturers claim hundreds of hours of diving or years of standby and of course different batteries have different specs, but is the difference (even under good circumstances for the HH) something that should be expected? The numbers really arent that diifferent once you start looking at the power sources used and the wattage they are able to deliever.. if you are comparing a single AA alkaline cell against a 5 pack, you should compare the life of 5 battery changes against a pack of 5.. The 5 changes would be less - because the smaller voltage cells need to deliever more peak current which derates cells faster but its a fairer comparison.. Thats one of the reasons why a 3.6v AA in the HH lasts longer than even 3 standard AA cell changes... Look at the CRP2s used my the Insp.. these have a wattage rating about 30% higher than a single 3.6v saft but doesnt last as long... I know I have done 3 weeks of every day diving on a HH (but usually only go 2 weeks for safety), I have never even come close to that on an Insp.. Also compare things like is there an LCD display?, If so is it viewable all the time or does it go to sleep independent of the controller... Size of the display, the larger (physically - not number of characters/lines), usually the more current needed for the backlight and display.. If we look at DC, the VR3 is a good comparison since it can use a single AA as well.. If I take a HH and wake it up every day, I get 3-4 weeks on a AA cell, If I do this to a vr3 (I only tried it on one unit, and 2 different times) which has a smaller display I got 4-5 weeks.. Not much of a difference there.. If you didn't have to track time (integrated DC) then you could stay in standby for much longer time.... on the HH constantly checking the depth sensor does use up resources, once the depth check is eliminated battery life should increase.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 22nd June 2006 at 18:54.
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22nd June 2006, 18:42	#12 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by henckell) I have had some restart problems with all the versions I have used, but only on the primary. Never the secondary. I have had it happen on the new secondary.. The restart due to battery voltage (not a bad contact), will usually only happen when the solenoid AND backlight are on together.. In fact, a unit that restarts, will still maintain SP (for a reasonable time) as long as you don't activate the backlight and solenoid at the same time. This only happens on Rev B and Later, the original Rev A units were immune to this problem, without the charge pump, the voltage supplied by the batteries (2 x 3.6v cells) were always able to supply enough voltage to keep the processor running, however the display would dim, especially when the solenoid tried to fire.. You would reach a point where the controller was still on but couldn't get the solenoid to fire. Solution for continual "restarts" due to low battery and NOT usually contact problems.. (but it is worth trying the procedure anyway since there IS a chance there is continuity, just not enough to supply the necessary current) DO NOT attempt to press any of the buttons to change the SP (it will reset to the default setpoint on powerup, not the target) while the system is starting up.. once its ready MANUALLY bring the SP above the target (.1 above is a good point), then quickly change the sp to the desired target and stop pressing the buttons once its confirmed, now avoid using the buttons until the dive is completed.... If you dont do it this way, the solenoid WILL fire before the backlight goes off and the unit will RESET again. If you MUST get into the screens, manually raise the SP above the target, high enough to cover how long you anticipate being in the menus (and keep it there). The lower the battery supply voltage the greater the demand for current placed on the battery.. Think of it this way, if the backlight needs 100ma at 5v, and the battery voltage is currently 1V, that means the instantaneous demand could be 500ma at 1v. Also some of these buck/boost converters can put high initial power demands until stable.. A draw of 3A-5A is not unheard of The HH is not this high (I have measured over 1A though) __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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22nd June 2006, 18:51	#13 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by henckell) The HUD is nice but I can´t tell the difference between the colours at depth. I only use the "user SP mode" and note the frequency of the blinks. I too have trouble seeing the color differences unless the surroundings are really dark.. Something that helps is to make a hood for the DIVA, out od wiring insulator or even a hose protector so that the led is about 1cm or so inside this hood. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Offline)

22nd June 2006, 20:54	#14 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,470	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Like this ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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22nd June 2006, 21:10	#15 (permalink)
cys ck #157 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: S. California Posts: 201	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues It would be nice if the unit displayed the NDL time, in place of "no stop." It would also be nice if one could choose 0 seconds (off) for the backlight timer.
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23rd June 2006, 04:29	#16 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues CONDUCTIVE LUBRICANT APPLICATION. step 1: Clean all contact surfaces with progold or a vinegar solution. These are not delicate surfaces like the gold plated molex and banana conectors so no special precautions need to be followed. Keep vinegar solutions and progold off the annodizing of the handsets. The SOCKET on the handset MUST be cleaned of all oxidation.. Failure to do this result in intermittent operation. Step 2: Put some conductive grease in the cap so that the spring can sit in it.. the grease will protect the socket, spring and cap from oxidation. Step 3: Sparingly apply grease across threads on cap.. the idea is to get just enough lubricant on the threads and in the gaps so when it is screwed down the voids will be filled.. If you heavily cover everything, the excess lubricant will be forced out and get all over the place.. LESS iS BETTER. Most versions of this type of lubricant ARE O-ring safe.. In some applications it is used as the lubricant for the orings (mostly for EMI protection).. I do not know how it would effect the sealing in a pressure enviroment so I wouldn't PURPOSEDLY put it there, but I HAVE had it get on the orings of my Explorer and had no problems (discovered it on the next battery change).. As long as the lubricant doesnt get contaminated, I would not worry about replacing it.. Just leave it there.. I don't think its necessary to put it on the spring/battery interface.. It couln't hurt, but this stuff is messy and I don't recommend using it more than necessary.. You DON'T want it to end up in the bottom of the battery compartment where it could short the positive terminal to the rest of the compartment. I have used this type of lubricant for years.. Since I started using it ,I have never had my HS Explorer reset, and it stopped the intermittent lockups I used to get on the VR3. Once it is applied, you just need to inspect it for irregularities, and possibly some additional addition. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 28th June 2006 at 16:24.
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23rd June 2006, 05:17	#17 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,938	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Thank you for the information. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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20th July 2006, 23:27	#18 (permalink)
zmcave www.rebreather.com.br Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 176	isopropyl alcohol on HH hi guys, since I was unable to find a contact cleaner without petroleum derivates down here (and that small deoxIt doesn't look like lasting a lot) a friend of mine that fixes cell phones for motorola told me he uses isopropyl alcohol (I think that's the name in english) to clean his contacts! Are there any know issues about using it on the HH electronics and in the electronics head? concentration is 99% I think. thanks, Zé.
(Online)

21st July 2006, 01:19	#19 (permalink)
bellamygdj New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: hamilton Posts: 33	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Like this ATB Mark Chase nICE one Mark....!, do you mind if I copy your Idea?, of course I will give full credit on the retail packs....sorry...I...mean if anyone asks that is __________________ Born to Kerplonk
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21st July 2006, 03:38	#20 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Re: isopropyl alcohol on HH Quote: (Originally Posted by zmcave) hi guys, since I was unable to find a contact cleaner without petroleum derivates down here (and that small deoxIt doesn't look like lasting a lot) a friend of mine that fixes cell phones for motorola told me he uses isopropyl alcohol (I think that's the name in english) to clean his contacts! Are there any know issues about using it on the HH electronics and in the electronics head? concentration is 99% I think. thanks, Zé. Depends on what type of cleaning is necessary.. It will remove most contaminates but wont remove most oxidation.. Use a diluted white vinegar solution for a few minutes then you can rinse it with the alchohol (it will dry much faster than water).. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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