HammerHead Revisions and Issues

heyydude · 23rd July 2008, 15:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz)

Hi John,

Wow, cool looking... Not!

FYI:

There is a ss version of the same solenoid, this is what is in my homebuilt.

Some grades of ss are still magnetic but this hasn't been checked for the internal parts.

The nickel plated steel bit for the magnetic circuit was replaced with a pure nickel part.

z

Regardless of the External material of the Solenoid, the INTERNALS, by necessity, have to be made out of Ferrous material, so that the magnetic field generated by the Coil can retract the Piston, to allow gas to flow through the Orifice.

We're looking at different types of valves now, to try and find something that can withstand corrosion better.

I should note that the solenoids we use in the HH system are mechanically identical to the ones used in the Mark 15's - some of which have been in service for 30 years. So, they CAN last a long time with proper care...

I've said this on other threads, but it bears repeating here - ANY solenoid can fail if exposed to salt water or spray. "Hygiene" is the critical element here.

That, and periodic replacement of the solenoid should keep you rolling along.

Kevin.

Stephane · 23rd July 2008, 16:06

Kevin,

Would you recommend putting a check valve on the output of the solenoid?

**jiseson** · 23rd July 2008, 16:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane)

Kevin,

Would you recommend putting a check valve on the output of the solenoid?

i expect most issues for the solenoid on HH come from the input side. important to watch where you are exposing it and cap it when not attached to O2 hose. Avoid tooo much lube too

Stephane · 23rd July 2008, 16:17

The solenoid in the rEvo is fed from the inside, water or moisture can't come by this way.
I fear more a loop flood that will enter from the output side.

heyydude · 23rd July 2008, 18:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane)

The solenoid in the rEvo is fed from the inside, water or moisture can't come by this way.
I fear more a loop flood that will enter from the output side.

Hi Stephane,

The way the Snap-Tite is built, that shouldn't be an issue - but at the same time it doesn't sound like it would be a bad thing to have a check valve on the output on your system - as long as the cracking pressure is low (Swagelok makes a one-way which has a cracking pressure of 1 psi).

All the best,

Kevin.

Dsix36 · 23rd July 2008, 21:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Ken,

I agree 100% on this issue. I have no idea how difficult it would be to program in a Logging function, but it would be a great addition. I'd love to see a 10 dive log available on the units.

Trish.... Try to have this, along with an adjustable last stop depth, and a fix for the remaining 1 minute of Deco that takes 5 minutes to clear, ready by DEMA OK?

The larger, brighter screen, cutting the size (Thickness) in half, and the reliable wireless technology can wait until the following DEMA.

Richie

.....ready by DEMA? ......the following DEMA?

What is wrong with you Richie, I want it ALL and I want it NOW

heyydude · 24th July 2008, 00:13

DEMA, eh?

'Vegas, Baby!

We'll see what we can cook up for you dudes by then...

Kevin.

Stephane · 24th July 2008, 08:49

Hi Kevin,

As you can see on the photo:

there is not much space to put a check valve on the Snaptite. Can you recommend me something?

jaap · 6th October 2008, 18:57

Just wanted to report this.

During the last dive two weeks ago my primary suddenly reset while I was hangin around at about 3m depth in the end of a dive. No big deal since the secondary was fine and I was just hanging around waiting for my OC buddy to clear his final stop.

Didn't notice any BAT warning prior to the reset (warning at 3.0 V) and the voltage was at 3.3 V while kitting up. I use the Saft LST 14500. I had ~15 h on the primary battery and about ~20 h on the secondary. After the reset I tried to provoke another primary reset by activating the backlight and solenoid before finishing the dive, but it didn't reset.

OK so I figured it was time to replace the primary battery but was a little surprised the primary was exhausted before the secondary battery that had more hours on it (I very rarely have the solenoid fire) and that it didn't reset when provoked to.

Next dive this weekend. I put in a new LST 14500 in the primary, leaving the secondary one as it was. Voltage > 3.3V while kitting up. Did the dive, and guess what. During my last stop with about 3 min left at 3 m the primary resets again! No BAT warning. This time the primary went into a "never ending reset cycle".

Back on the boat I opened/closed the batterycap and it was fine reading >3.3 V. No visible contamination on any part.

I now suspect this has nothing to do with the battery itself and that I have a bad battery connection, right? I do check the battery compartment and polished the spring a little some weeks ago. But I guess I need to get myself the proper connection cleaning stuff and some conductive grease for the cap.

BTW
I know I should use the LS rather than the LST batteries. But I did go to ~25 h on the previous set of LST's, without any resets. So I decided to change battery at max 25 h or after BAT-warnings.

***jradomski*** · 6th October 2008, 22:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap)

Just wanted to report this.

During the last dive two weeks ago my primary suddenly reset while I was hangin around at about 3m depth in the end of a dive. No big deal since the secondary was fine and I was just hanging around waiting for my OC buddy to clear his final stop.

Didn't notice any BAT warning prior to the reset (warning at 3.0 V) and the voltage was at 3.3 V while kitting up. I use the Saft LST 14500. I had ~15 h on the primary battery and about ~20 h on the secondary. After the reset I tried to provoke another primary reset by activating the backlight and solenoid before finishing the dive, but it didn't reset.

OK so I figured it was time to replace the primary battery but was a little surprised the primary was exhausted before the secondary battery that had more hours on it (I very rarely have the solenoid fire) and that it didn't reset when provoked to.

Next dive this weekend. I put in a new LST 14500 in the primary, leaving the secondary one as it was. Voltage > 3.3V while kitting up. Did the dive, and guess what. During my last stop with about 3 min left at 3 m the primary resets again! No BAT warning. This time the primary went into a "never ending reset cycle".

Back on the boat I opened/closed the batterycap and it was fine reading >3.3 V. No visible contamination on any part.

I now suspect this has nothing to do with the battery itself and that I have a bad battery connection, right? I do check the battery compartment and polished the spring a little some weeks ago. But I guess I need to get myself the proper connection cleaning stuff and some conductive grease for the cap.

BTW
I know I should use the LS rather than the LST batteries. But I did go to ~25 h on the previous set of LST's, without any resets. So I decided to change battery at max 25 h or after BAT-warnings.

clean the contact at the bottom of the battery compartment with an eraser (especially the center).. also look at the batteries themselves.. I have had issues with excessive tarnish on batteries (not with my hh) but with one of my cameras.. I hit the battery with an eraser and my issues went away.. I have been doing this with all my electronics since then, so I don;t know if it will make a difference here.. Just a suggestion.. Its been part of my battery replacement protocol for years now...

I have been seeing more and more manufacturer's going to a "flat" top on their AA cells.. This may cause issues in the future.. A small stiff spring for the positive terminal works wonders.. I have been using it with a flat top rechargeable cell that I am testing on one handset...

23rd July 2008, 15:21	#181 (permalink)
heyydude King of the Geeks Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Addison, Pennsylvania Posts: 380	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz) Hi John, Wow, cool looking... Not! FYI: There is a ss version of the same solenoid, this is what is in my homebuilt. Some grades of ss are still magnetic but this hasn't been checked for the internal parts. The nickel plated steel bit for the magnetic circuit was replaced with a pure nickel part. z Regardless of the External material of the Solenoid, the INTERNALS, by necessity, have to be made out of Ferrous material, so that the magnetic field generated by the Coil can retract the Piston, to allow gas to flow through the Orifice. We're looking at different types of valves now, to try and find something that can withstand corrosion better. I should note that the solenoids we use in the HH system are mechanically identical to the ones used in the Mark 15's - some of which have been in service for 30 years. So, they CAN last a long time with proper care... I've said this on other threads, but it bears repeating here - ANY solenoid can fail if exposed to salt water or spray. "Hygiene" is the critical element here. That, and periodic replacement of the solenoid should keep you rolling along. Kevin.
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23rd July 2008, 16:06	#182 (permalink)
Stephane Stéphane Acounis Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 788	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Kevin, Would you recommend putting a check valve on the output of the solenoid? __________________ Stéphane
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23rd July 2008, 16:12	#183 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 640	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane) Kevin, Would you recommend putting a check valve on the output of the solenoid? i expect most issues for the solenoid on HH come from the input side. important to watch where you are exposing it and cap it when not attached to O2 hose. Avoid tooo much lube too __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
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23rd July 2008, 16:17	#184 (permalink)
Stephane Stéphane Acounis Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 788	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues The solenoid in the rEvo is fed from the inside, water or moisture can't come by this way. I fear more a loop flood that will enter from the output side. __________________ Stéphane
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23rd July 2008, 18:00	#185 (permalink)
heyydude King of the Geeks Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Addison, Pennsylvania Posts: 380	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane) The solenoid in the rEvo is fed from the inside, water or moisture can't come by this way. I fear more a loop flood that will enter from the output side. Hi Stephane, The way the Snap-Tite is built, that shouldn't be an issue - but at the same time it doesn't sound like it would be a bad thing to have a check valve on the output on your system - as long as the cracking pressure is low (Swagelok makes a one-way which has a cracking pressure of 1 psi). All the best, Kevin.
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23rd July 2008, 21:26	#186 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,154	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Ken, I agree 100% on this issue. I have no idea how difficult it would be to program in a Logging function, but it would be a great addition. I'd love to see a 10 dive log available on the units. Trish.... Try to have this, along with an adjustable last stop depth, and a fix for the remaining 1 minute of Deco that takes 5 minutes to clear, ready by DEMA OK? The larger, brighter screen, cutting the size (Thickness) in half, and the reliable wireless technology can wait until the following DEMA. Richie .....ready by DEMA? ......the following DEMA? What is wrong with you Richie, I want it ALL and I want it NOW __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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24th July 2008, 00:13	#187 (permalink)
heyydude King of the Geeks Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Addison, Pennsylvania Posts: 380	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues DEMA, eh? 'Vegas, Baby! We'll see what we can cook up for you dudes by then... Kevin.
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24th July 2008, 08:49	#188 (permalink)
Stephane Stéphane Acounis Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 788	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Hi Kevin, As you can see on the photo: there is not much space to put a check valve on the Snaptite. Can you recommend me something? __________________ Stéphane
(Online)

6th October 2008, 18:57	#189 (permalink)
jaap Normal people worry me Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR RB80 / Clone Ray Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 472	Primary reset Just wanted to report this. During the last dive two weeks ago my primary suddenly reset while I was hangin around at about 3m depth in the end of a dive. No big deal since the secondary was fine and I was just hanging around waiting for my OC buddy to clear his final stop. Didn't notice any BAT warning prior to the reset (warning at 3.0 V) and the voltage was at 3.3 V while kitting up. I use the Saft LST 14500. I had ~15 h on the primary battery and about ~20 h on the secondary. After the reset I tried to provoke another primary reset by activating the backlight and solenoid before finishing the dive, but it didn't reset. OK so I figured it was time to replace the primary battery but was a little surprised the primary was exhausted before the secondary battery that had more hours on it (I very rarely have the solenoid fire) and that it didn't reset when provoked to. Next dive this weekend. I put in a new LST 14500 in the primary, leaving the secondary one as it was. Voltage > 3.3V while kitting up. Did the dive, and guess what. During my last stop with about 3 min left at 3 m the primary resets again! No BAT warning. This time the primary went into a "never ending reset cycle". Back on the boat I opened/closed the batterycap and it was fine reading >3.3 V. No visible contamination on any part. I now suspect this has nothing to do with the battery itself and that I have a bad battery connection, right? I do check the battery compartment and polished the spring a little some weeks ago. But I guess I need to get myself the proper connection cleaning stuff and some conductive grease for the cap. BTW I know I should use the LS rather than the LST batteries. But I did go to ~25 h on the previous set of LST's, without any resets. So I decided to change battery at max 25 h or after BAT-warnings. __________________ My initials: JAAP
(Online)

6th October 2008, 22:43	#190 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Primary reset Quote: (Originally Posted by jaap) Just wanted to report this. During the last dive two weeks ago my primary suddenly reset while I was hangin around at about 3m depth in the end of a dive. No big deal since the secondary was fine and I was just hanging around waiting for my OC buddy to clear his final stop. Didn't notice any BAT warning prior to the reset (warning at 3.0 V) and the voltage was at 3.3 V while kitting up. I use the Saft LST 14500. I had ~15 h on the primary battery and about ~20 h on the secondary. After the reset I tried to provoke another primary reset by activating the backlight and solenoid before finishing the dive, but it didn't reset. OK so I figured it was time to replace the primary battery but was a little surprised the primary was exhausted before the secondary battery that had more hours on it (I very rarely have the solenoid fire) and that it didn't reset when provoked to. Next dive this weekend. I put in a new LST 14500 in the primary, leaving the secondary one as it was. Voltage > 3.3V while kitting up. Did the dive, and guess what. During my last stop with about 3 min left at 3 m the primary resets again! No BAT warning. This time the primary went into a "never ending reset cycle". Back on the boat I opened/closed the batterycap and it was fine reading >3.3 V. No visible contamination on any part. I now suspect this has nothing to do with the battery itself and that I have a bad battery connection, right? I do check the battery compartment and polished the spring a little some weeks ago. But I guess I need to get myself the proper connection cleaning stuff and some conductive grease for the cap. BTW I know I should use the LS rather than the LST batteries. But I did go to ~25 h on the previous set of LST's, without any resets. So I decided to change battery at max 25 h or after BAT-warnings. clean the contact at the bottom of the battery compartment with an eraser (especially the center).. also look at the batteries themselves.. I have had issues with excessive tarnish on batteries (not with my hh) but with one of my cameras.. I hit the battery with an eraser and my issues went away.. I have been doing this with all my electronics since then, so I don;t know if it will make a difference here.. Just a suggestion.. Its been part of my battery replacement protocol for years now... I have been seeing more and more manufacturer's going to a "flat" top on their AA cells.. This may cause issues in the future.. A small stiff spring for the positive terminal works wonders.. I have been using it with a flat top rechargeable cell that I am testing on one handset... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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