HammerHead Revisions and Issues

jiseson · 14th June 2007, 19:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by chucky05)

I am having trouble with my HH's shutting down. I wash the units with warm fresh water and am often finding they are still on 6-10 hours later. I have even tried a hair dryer but to no avail. My only solution has been to wait until all my diving id over and then remove the batteries. Can anyone suggest something or do I have a problem with my handset's.
Thanks

i saw 2 separate rigs unit stay in dive mode 7 hrs after a dive-??

**Recrebreather** · 15th June 2007, 04:42

I use AA batteres from Frys and they last me two 1 to 1.5 hour dives with a 1 to 2 hour surface interval. After that they are toast.

I have just started using the SAFT batteries and they seem to last much longer.

Mark Chase · 15th June 2007, 08:47

Its not a battery issue. I used Duracell's Alkaline that ran 4-5 hours no problem and I used brand new Safts that went into reboot mode in under three hours.

Silver grease on the caps and meticulous cleaning of contact surfaces seemed the best solution. NEVER leave the caps undone / off because they aluminum coats up relay quickly in air.

However I had one hand set that just kept rebooting after i switched over a new depth sensor. Kevin kindly replaced the internal model and with exactly the same battery it was suddenly fine. I did a couple of tests on it and it never failed again. I also noted on four occasions rebooting issues at depth that fixed them selves onm the ascent. So dropping to 60m it started to reboot and then returning to 30m its fine again??

It makes me wonder if the battery and contact issues are not a bit of a Red Herring. Certainly I know divers with HH's who claim to have never had the issue and there is no way they are being more careful with cleaning and conductive grease / Noalox than i was. The coincidence of depth issues and depth sensor issues also made me wonder if there was a link in some way.

ATB

Mark Chase

**Recrebreather** · 15th June 2007, 14:30

On the old (arclyic) handsets I could not get more than 1 hour from a set of batteries. With the new ones, I have never had a reboot issue.

Max depth 330 feet.

I have been following this so I am starting to think a bit like Mark and maybe it is more depth related rather than batteries that cause the rebooting issues.

Mike...

jknights · 15th June 2007, 18:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Its not a battery issue. I used Duracell's Alkaline that ran 4-5 hours no problem and I used brand new Safts that went into reboot mode in under three hours.

Silver grease on the caps and meticulous cleaning of contact surfaces seemed the best solution. NEVER leave the caps undone / off because they aluminum coats up relay quickly in air.

However I had one hand set that just kept rebooting after i switched over a new depth sensor. Kevin kindly replaced the internal model and with exactly the same battery it was suddenly fine. I did a couple of tests on it and it never failed again. I also noted on four occasions rebooting issues at depth that fixed them selves onm the ascent. So dropping to 60m it started to reboot and then returning to 30m its fine again??

It makes me wonder if the battery and contact issues are not a bit of a Red Herring. Certainly I know divers with HH's who claim to have never had the issue and there is no way they are being more careful with cleaning and conductive grease / Noalox than i was. The coincidence of depth issues and depth sensor issues also made me wonder if there was a link in some way.

ATB

Mark Chase

Interesting post Mark.

I have recently purchased a HH for my seccond Inspiration setup and I like it. Once you understand the complexity of the menus it is very easy and much cleverer than the Clasic Inspiration.

However I was testing the other day in the pool and the secondary suddenly went thorugh a series of reboots (two or three) then was OK for the rest of the pool dive (another 25 mins). I wouldnt have noticed except that I was watching the pair of handsets very closely.

As you say it makes one wonder if there is something undiagnosed that is occurring rather than the poor battery contacts. I dont know the detail of the circuitry but this behaviour is tough to find as it is spurious. It seems as though there may be a short somewhere or a component that is very close to tolerance in the whole circuit that induces instability.

I'm not enough of an electronics expert to diagnose but I dont think that Kevin would have designed something that was so close to critical as he is very consciencious about the safety aspects.

jknights · 15th June 2007, 18:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

Mark

They have a UK site that lists dealers.

IDEAL INDUSTRIES - Home

In the past I used this stuff to maintain good ground continuity on towers and aluminum antenna joints. You need to make sure the surfaces are clear of oxidation before application.

John

thanks for the link.
I'll get some and test out.

jkaterenchuk · 16th June 2007, 02:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by jknights)

thanks for the link.
I'll get some and test out.

Check with Mark Chase. He found a supplier in the UK and might have some available.

John

zmcave · 15th July 2007, 19:55

Hi,

Already at the dive site, calibrated both units and waited for the rest of the team to suit up. By the time I started pre-breathing, my Primary hand set was "freezed", showing the surface mode screen. When I hit the buttons nothing happened. The secondary has working well.
I decided to take the battery out and put it on again. The screen comes up, showing the version and freezes on that screen. Again, nothing happens when I touch the buttons. And, I coud not hear the solenoid firing. Tried taking the battery out and in several times with the same output, even with different batteries. Since I was getting a little nervous with it, decided to quit trying.
Today, I went for another try and the Primary worked fine!

Any thoughs?
Thank you,

Zé.

***jradomski*** · 15th July 2007, 21:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by zmcave)

Hi,

Already at the dive site, calibrated both units and waited for the rest of the team to suit up. By the time I started pre-breathing, my Primary hand set was "freezed", showing the surface mode screen. When I hit the buttons nothing happened. The secondary has working well.
I decided to take the battery out and put it on again. The screen comes up, showing the version and freezes on that screen. Again, nothing happens when I touch the buttons. And, I coud not hear the solenoid firing. Tried taking the battery out and in several times with the same output, even with different batteries. Since I was getting a little nervous with it, decided to quit trying.
Today, I went for another try and the Primary worked fine!

Any thoughs?
Thank you,

Zé.

Make sure the batteries are new.. TEST Them.. also I would clean the battery compartment contacts.. The solenoid should fire right about where you are stating and if the contact is poor, the voltage will drop and the system will probably hang..
Aluminum oxidizes very easily its important to keep the contacts clean.. You can clean the cap with a contact cleaner like progold (ore vinegar).. use diluted white vinegar to remove the oxidation from the compartment threads and contact.. use a conductive grease for electronics, or better off go to an electrical supply house and get noalox (or similiar) it is specifically designed for electrical contacts between aluminum and other metals..

**JPJones** · 16th July 2007, 02:40

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

nope no support for altitude decompression or calibration at altitude.. Last time I asked Kevin he wasnt planning an update..

It's in the menu on the new software and I assume it works.

14th June 2007, 19:17	#101 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 503	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by chucky05) I am having trouble with my HH's shutting down. I wash the units with warm fresh water and am often finding they are still on 6-10 hours later. I have even tried a hair dryer but to no avail. My only solution has been to wait until all my diving id over and then remove the batteries. Can anyone suggest something or do I have a problem with my handset's. Thanks i saw 2 separate rigs unit stay in dive mode 7 hrs after a dive-?? __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
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15th June 2007, 04:42	#102 (permalink)
Recrebreather Rebreathers Rock Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 101	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues I use AA batteres from Frys and they last me two 1 to 1.5 hour dives with a 1 to 2 hour surface interval. After that they are toast. I have just started using the SAFT batteries and they seem to last much longer.
(Online)

15th June 2007, 08:47	#103 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,522	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Its not a battery issue. I used Duracell's Alkaline that ran 4-5 hours no problem and I used brand new Safts that went into reboot mode in under three hours. Silver grease on the caps and meticulous cleaning of contact surfaces seemed the best solution. NEVER leave the caps undone / off because they aluminum coats up relay quickly in air. However I had one hand set that just kept rebooting after i switched over a new depth sensor. Kevin kindly replaced the internal model and with exactly the same battery it was suddenly fine. I did a couple of tests on it and it never failed again. I also noted on four occasions rebooting issues at depth that fixed them selves onm the ascent. So dropping to 60m it started to reboot and then returning to 30m its fine again?? It makes me wonder if the battery and contact issues are not a bit of a Red Herring. Certainly I know divers with HH's who claim to have never had the issue and there is no way they are being more careful with cleaning and conductive grease / Noalox than i was. The coincidence of depth issues and depth sensor issues also made me wonder if there was a link in some way. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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15th June 2007, 14:30	#104 (permalink)
Recrebreather Rebreathers Rock Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 101	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues On the old (arclyic) handsets I could not get more than 1 hour from a set of batteries. With the new ones, I have never had a reboot issue. Max depth 330 feet. I have been following this so I am starting to think a bit like Mark and maybe it is more depth related rather than batteries that cause the rebooting issues. Mike...
(Online)

15th June 2007, 18:43	#105 (permalink)
jknights New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oliva, Valencia, Spain. Posts: 121	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Its not a battery issue. I used Duracell's Alkaline that ran 4-5 hours no problem and I used brand new Safts that went into reboot mode in under three hours. Silver grease on the caps and meticulous cleaning of contact surfaces seemed the best solution. NEVER leave the caps undone / off because they aluminum coats up relay quickly in air. However I had one hand set that just kept rebooting after i switched over a new depth sensor. Kevin kindly replaced the internal model and with exactly the same battery it was suddenly fine. I did a couple of tests on it and it never failed again. I also noted on four occasions rebooting issues at depth that fixed them selves onm the ascent. So dropping to 60m it started to reboot and then returning to 30m its fine again?? It makes me wonder if the battery and contact issues are not a bit of a Red Herring. Certainly I know divers with HH's who claim to have never had the issue and there is no way they are being more careful with cleaning and conductive grease / Noalox than i was. The coincidence of depth issues and depth sensor issues also made me wonder if there was a link in some way. ATB Mark Chase Interesting post Mark. I have recently purchased a HH for my seccond Inspiration setup and I like it. Once you understand the complexity of the menus it is very easy and much cleverer than the Clasic Inspiration. However I was testing the other day in the pool and the secondary suddenly went thorugh a series of reboots (two or three) then was OK for the rest of the pool dive (another 25 mins). I wouldnt have noticed except that I was watching the pair of handsets very closely. As you say it makes one wonder if there is something undiagnosed that is occurring rather than the poor battery contacts. I dont know the detail of the circuitry but this behaviour is tough to find as it is spurious. It seems as though there may be a short somewhere or a component that is very close to tolerance in the whole circuit that induces instability. I'm not enough of an electronics expert to diagnose but I dont think that Kevin would have designed something that was so close to critical as he is very consciencious about the safety aspects.
(Offline)

15th June 2007, 18:44	#106 (permalink)
jknights New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Oliva, Valencia, Spain. Posts: 121	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) Mark They have a UK site that lists dealers. IDEAL INDUSTRIES - Home In the past I used this stuff to maintain good ground continuity on towers and aluminum antenna joints. You need to make sure the surfaces are clear of oxidation before application. John thanks for the link. I'll get some and test out.
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16th June 2007, 02:46	#107 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 722	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by jknights) thanks for the link. I'll get some and test out. Check with Mark Chase. He found a supplier in the UK and might have some available. John
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15th July 2007, 19:55	#108 (permalink)
zmcave www.rebreather.com.br Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brazil Posts: 181	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Hi, Already at the dive site, calibrated both units and waited for the rest of the team to suit up. By the time I started pre-breathing, my Primary hand set was "freezed", showing the surface mode screen. When I hit the buttons nothing happened. The secondary has working well. I decided to take the battery out and put it on again. The screen comes up, showing the version and freezes on that screen. Again, nothing happens when I touch the buttons. And, I coud not hear the solenoid firing. Tried taking the battery out and in several times with the same output, even with different batteries. Since I was getting a little nervous with it, decided to quit trying. Today, I went for another try and the Primary worked fine! Any thoughs? Thank you, Zé.
(Offline)

15th July 2007, 21:35	#109 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,846	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by zmcave) Hi, Already at the dive site, calibrated both units and waited for the rest of the team to suit up. By the time I started pre-breathing, my Primary hand set was "freezed", showing the surface mode screen. When I hit the buttons nothing happened. The secondary has working well. I decided to take the battery out and put it on again. The screen comes up, showing the version and freezes on that screen. Again, nothing happens when I touch the buttons. And, I coud not hear the solenoid firing. Tried taking the battery out and in several times with the same output, even with different batteries. Since I was getting a little nervous with it, decided to quit trying. Today, I went for another try and the Primary worked fine! Any thoughs? Thank you, Zé. Make sure the batteries are new.. TEST Them.. also I would clean the battery compartment contacts.. The solenoid should fire right about where you are stating and if the contact is poor, the voltage will drop and the system will probably hang.. Aluminum oxidizes very easily its important to keep the contacts clean.. You can clean the cap with a contact cleaner like progold (ore vinegar).. use diluted white vinegar to remove the oxidation from the compartment threads and contact.. use a conductive grease for electronics, or better off go to an electrical supply house and get noalox (or similiar) it is specifically designed for electrical contacts between aluminum and other metals.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
(Online)

16th July 2007, 02:40	#110 (permalink)
JPJones O2ptima Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Optima Titan Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 367	Re: HammerHead Revisions and Issues Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) nope no support for altitude decompression or calibration at altitude.. Last time I asked Kevin he wasnt planning an update.. It's in the menu on the new software and I assume it works. __________________ NSS/CDS Training Chairman www.jpjscuba.com
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