Master Hand set switching its self off??

Mark Chase · 8th May 2006, 17:33

OK, so doing a dive on my YBOD, unit calibrates fine the night before and on the boat. During the dive about (10mins in) the master hand set switches off with no warning. No low battery warning nothing just bang two bleeps and its off.

Switches to slave and within a min or two I have a cell error warning

So any explanations for a hand set just shutting down (second time its happened) and was it just coincidence that cell 2 should suddenly start showing 1.6?

Strangely cell 3 had been running hotter than most and always read very high during calibration. 1&2 were always tracking well. 3 showed like 1.10 on 02 calibration against .85 -.95 for cell 1&2 ??

Dill flush and 6m 02 flush confirmed cell 2 was screwed. It wasn't permanently screwed it drifted in and out of cell error mode.

God that buzzer is annoying.

Any ideas any one or is it just one of those things?

Depth 67m, 8-9c dill Trimix 17/40, 02 testing pure at 99.7% on the Analox. Interstage presures spot on.

ATB

Mark Chase

Gadget · 8th May 2006, 19:16

I know this is going slightly of track.

Did i understand it right one hand set not working! a cell error warning! and when you confirmed the cell's at 6 mtr you felt one was not 100%. and in your words "the buzzer was annoying".

But you still carried on and made a 67mtr dive??????

I think from my question's to me this sounds mad i for one would have blown this day out who cares about the expense. appoligies if i have read and understood it incorectly.

Mark Chase · 8th May 2006, 19:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gadget)

I know this is going slightly of track.

Did i understand it right one hand set not working! a cell error warning! and when you confirmed the cell's at 6 mtr you felt one was not 100%. and in your words "the buzzer was annoying".

But you still carried on and made a 67mtr dive??????

I think from my question's to me this sounds mad i for one would have blown this day out who cares about the expense. appoligies if i have read and understood it incorectly.

You have understood it incorrectly.

Hand set packed up AT 67m 10-15mins into the bottom time. Cell error happened shortly after. Going up was not an option.

Both hand sets calibrated fine. No low battery warnings and they held 0.7 set point during the pre breath. They were holding set point 1.3 untill the master failed which is why I am asking are the incidents linked?

Hand sets are backed up by and independent HUD which is independently calibrated and an independent VR3 running on cell 1.

Cell 3 had been running hot on calibration ever since new but it has never failed during a dive. Cell 3 is still in the unit and it worked fine the next day on the 70m dive when I had replaced cell 2 and both batteries.

Cell 3 reads correctly on a deep dill flush air and 02 at 6m.

The failed cell was showing a PP02 of 1.85 on an o2 flush at 6m on deco.

Trust me if it hapens to you and you have to sit out 50mins of returning to the line and deco with the buzzer bleeping in your ear, you WILL find it anoying.

ATB

Mark Chase

***Decodiver*** · 8th May 2006, 19:57

Hi Mark,

Following on from this and the potential cracked handset thread, why not send it back to AP for a check, if you ask Nikki nicely I am sure they will even lend you a spare head so you miss no diving?

Cheers,

Dave.

Mark Chase · 8th May 2006, 21:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Hi Mark,

Following on from this and the potential cracked handset thread, why not send it back to AP for a check, if you ask Nikki nicely I am sure they will even lend you a spare head so you miss no diving?

Cheers,

Dave.

Yes, I am damed if I can find any cracks or moisture in the hand set but you may well be right. MUST have it back beofore the gig on the 20th (a week on Loyal Watcher) so I am loath to send it in but I might have to as there apears no simple answer to this.

ATB

Mark Chase

SimonK · 8th May 2006, 22:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Yes, I am damed if I can find any cracks or moisture in the hand set but you may well be right. MUST have it back beofore the gig on the 20th (a week on Loyal Watcher) so I am loath to send it in but I might have to as there apears no simple answer to this.

ATB

Mark Chase

Well I have very little time using rebreathers but 20 years dealing with water logged electronics. The list of problems you have been having sounds like there is some moisture / corrosion in your handsets. At the least give AP a ring and see what they can do in the time, I guess the HUD connection would be a problem with borrowing a head.
Too many horror stories start off with minor problems that could be easily dealt with until something else happens.

Simon

Bazza · 9th May 2006, 00:24

Cracked handset ..... put my left nut on it!

regards Baz

pchanning · 9th May 2006, 01:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

OK, so doing a dive on my YBOD, unit calibrates fine the night before and on the boat. During the dive about (10mins in) the master hand set switches off with no warning. No low battery warning nothing just bang two bleeps and its off.
Switches to slave and within a min or two I have a cell error warning
So any explanations for a hand set just shutting down (second time its happened) and was it just coincidence that cell 2 should suddenly start showing 1.6?
Strangely cell 3 had been running hotter than most and always read very high during calibration. 1&2 were always tracking well. 3 showed like 1.10 on 02 calibration against .85 -.95 for cell 1&2 ??
Dill flush and 6m 02 flush confirmed cell 2 was screwed. It wasn't permanently screwed it drifted in and out of cell error mode.
God that buzzer is annoying.
Any ideas any one or is it just one of those things?
Depth 67m, 8-9c dill Trimix 17/40, 02 testing pure at 99.7% on the Analox. Interstage presures spot on.
ATB
Mark Chase

I tried posting this at the start of the thread but the link died. Some of this may be way off, but nonetheless...

Hi Mark,

I have had some strange incidents with electronics.

The most recent was a cell error - dropped to 0.03 after 30 minutes on the bottom - this has happened a few times. Sometimes recoverable via handsets off and on, sometimes not - straight into No Dive = no ppo2 readings. This was put down to a dodgy connection, so wires cut back and re-crimped and contacts cleaned. Interstingly I had many non-eventful dives in-between, strange.

The master has failed on the bottom and got stuck trying to turn itself on repeatedly. Put this down to a crap battery. Slave failed shortly after which didn't impress. That shouldn't have happened, and never did again despite using batteries from the same batch.

Your incidence seems like a compound problem. 1 being the battery the other being a cell, but possibly continuity. I would prefer to think that most failure modes could be attributed to either bad power, continuity or cell, rather than the handsets being cracked - thats a pisser.

My LDS is quite handy, has had a pressure pot tester for some time and runs up peoples heads on it for a few hours after having a fiddle. They do a great job. Dave Pelly, Sandford & Down, Plymouth - if anyone is interested/ in the area and wants a check-up. Beyond that, it gets sent back to the factory, and I top up my stage again

Regards
Paul

***Beanie*** · 9th May 2006, 09:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by pchanning)

Beyond that, it gets sent back to the factory, and I top up my stage again

who's stage

Mark if I was you I'd send it to the factory for a check over.

jukkao · 9th May 2006, 12:06

Terve,

In one unit the main switch that turns the micro switch inside the housing was barely turning the unit on. Try if it goes off when you turn the switch just a bit. You can see the mechanism better if you remove the black rubber cover. To tune the switch properly the sealed box must be opened.
Battery contacts fails also sometimes. Cleaning helps.

Jukka

8th May 2006, 17:33	#1 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,854	Master Hand set switching its self off?? OK, so doing a dive on my YBOD, unit calibrates fine the night before and on the boat. During the dive about (10mins in) the master hand set switches off with no warning. No low battery warning nothing just bang two bleeps and its off. Switches to slave and within a min or two I have a cell error warning So any explanations for a hand set just shutting down (second time its happened) and was it just coincidence that cell 2 should suddenly start showing 1.6? Strangely cell 3 had been running hotter than most and always read very high during calibration. 1&2 were always tracking well. 3 showed like 1.10 on 02 calibration against .85 -.95 for cell 1&2 ?? Dill flush and 6m 02 flush confirmed cell 2 was screwed. It wasn't permanently screwed it drifted in and out of cell error mode. God that buzzer is annoying. Any ideas any one or is it just one of those things? Depth 67m, 8-9c dill Trimix 17/40, 02 testing pure at 99.7% on the Analox. Interstage presures spot on. ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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8th May 2006, 19:16	#2 (permalink)
Gadget Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon rEvo Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Dolphin Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: Hoddesdon, Herts. Posts: 163	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? I know this is going slightly of track. Did i understand it right one hand set not working! a cell error warning! and when you confirmed the cell's at 6 mtr you felt one was not 100%. and in your words "the buzzer was annoying". But you still carried on and made a 67mtr dive?????? I think from my question's to me this sounds mad i for one would have blown this day out who cares about the expense. appoligies if i have read and understood it incorectly. __________________ Si Lawrence www.divehdi.com
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8th May 2006, 19:29	#3 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,854	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? Quote: (Originally Posted by Gadget) I know this is going slightly of track. Did i understand it right one hand set not working! a cell error warning! and when you confirmed the cell's at 6 mtr you felt one was not 100%. and in your words "the buzzer was annoying". But you still carried on and made a 67mtr dive?????? I think from my question's to me this sounds mad i for one would have blown this day out who cares about the expense. appoligies if i have read and understood it incorectly. You have understood it incorrectly. Hand set packed up AT 67m 10-15mins into the bottom time. Cell error happened shortly after. Going up was not an option. Both hand sets calibrated fine. No low battery warnings and they held 0.7 set point during the pre breath. They were holding set point 1.3 untill the master failed which is why I am asking are the incidents linked? Hand sets are backed up by and independent HUD which is independently calibrated and an independent VR3 running on cell 1. Cell 3 had been running hot on calibration ever since new but it has never failed during a dive. Cell 3 is still in the unit and it worked fine the next day on the 70m dive when I had replaced cell 2 and both batteries. Cell 3 reads correctly on a deep dill flush air and 02 at 6m. The failed cell was showing a PP02 of 1.85 on an o2 flush at 6m on deco. Trust me if it hapens to you and you have to sit out 50mins of returning to the line and deco with the buzzer bleeping in your ear, you WILL find it anoying. ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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8th May 2006, 19:57	#4 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,194	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? Hi Mark, Following on from this and the potential cracked handset thread, why not send it back to AP for a check, if you ask Nikki nicely I am sure they will even lend you a spare head so you miss no diving? Cheers, Dave. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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8th May 2006, 21:29	#5 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,854	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Hi Mark, Following on from this and the potential cracked handset thread, why not send it back to AP for a check, if you ask Nikki nicely I am sure they will even lend you a spare head so you miss no diving? Cheers, Dave. Yes, I am damed if I can find any cracks or moisture in the hand set but you may well be right. MUST have it back beofore the gig on the 20th (a week on Loyal Watcher) so I am loath to send it in but I might have to as there apears no simple answer to this. ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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8th May 2006, 22:51	#6 (permalink)
SimonK Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cumbria UK Posts: 231	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Yes, I am damed if I can find any cracks or moisture in the hand set but you may well be right. MUST have it back beofore the gig on the 20th (a week on Loyal Watcher) so I am loath to send it in but I might have to as there apears no simple answer to this. ATB Mark Chase Well I have very little time using rebreathers but 20 years dealing with water logged electronics. The list of problems you have been having sounds like there is some moisture / corrosion in your handsets. At the least give AP a ring and see what they can do in the time, I guess the HUD connection would be a problem with borrowing a head. Too many horror stories start off with minor problems that could be easily dealt with until something else happens. Simon
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9th May 2006, 00:24	#7 (permalink)
Bazza New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 174	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? Cracked handset ..... put my left nut on it! regards Baz
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9th May 2006, 01:00	#8 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) OK, so doing a dive on my YBOD, unit calibrates fine the night before and on the boat. During the dive about (10mins in) the master hand set switches off with no warning. No low battery warning nothing just bang two bleeps and its off. Switches to slave and within a min or two I have a cell error warning So any explanations for a hand set just shutting down (second time its happened) and was it just coincidence that cell 2 should suddenly start showing 1.6? Strangely cell 3 had been running hotter than most and always read very high during calibration. 1&2 were always tracking well. 3 showed like 1.10 on 02 calibration against .85 -.95 for cell 1&2 ?? Dill flush and 6m 02 flush confirmed cell 2 was screwed. It wasn't permanently screwed it drifted in and out of cell error mode. God that buzzer is annoying. Any ideas any one or is it just one of those things? Depth 67m, 8-9c dill Trimix 17/40, 02 testing pure at 99.7% on the Analox. Interstage presures spot on. ATB Mark Chase I tried posting this at the start of the thread but the link died. Some of this may be way off, but nonetheless... Hi Mark, I have had some strange incidents with electronics. The most recent was a cell error - dropped to 0.03 after 30 minutes on the bottom - this has happened a few times. Sometimes recoverable via handsets off and on, sometimes not - straight into No Dive = no ppo2 readings. This was put down to a dodgy connection, so wires cut back and re-crimped and contacts cleaned. Interstingly I had many non-eventful dives in-between, strange. The master has failed on the bottom and got stuck trying to turn itself on repeatedly. Put this down to a crap battery. Slave failed shortly after which didn't impress. That shouldn't have happened, and never did again despite using batteries from the same batch. Your incidence seems like a compound problem. 1 being the battery the other being a cell, but possibly continuity. I would prefer to think that most failure modes could be attributed to either bad power, continuity or cell, rather than the handsets being cracked - thats a pisser. My LDS is quite handy, has had a pressure pot tester for some time and runs up peoples heads on it for a few hours after having a fiddle. They do a great job. Dave Pelly, Sandford & Down, Plymouth - if anyone is interested/ in the area and wants a check-up. Beyond that, it gets sent back to the factory, and I top up my stage again Regards Paul __________________ Cheers Paul The key to enlightenment... is survival.
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9th May 2006, 09:20	#9 (permalink)
*Beanie* Gallery Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,311	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? Quote: (Originally Posted by pchanning) Beyond that, it gets sent back to the factory, and I top up my stage again who's stage Mark if I was you I'd send it to the factory for a check over. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
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9th May 2006, 12:06	#10 (permalink)
jukkao New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 17	Re: Master Hand set switching its self off?? Terve, In one unit the main switch that turns the micro switch inside the housing was barely turning the unit on. Try if it goes off when you turn the switch just a bit. You can see the mechanism better if you remove the black rubber cover. To tune the switch properly the sealed box must be opened. Battery contacts fails also sometimes. Cleaning helps. Jukka
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