solenoid firing on HH

paulraymaekers · 1st May 2006, 19:55

hello all,

other question: is the juergensen firing method more batterie-consuming then the standard method??

I suppose as the juergensen method tries to track the setpoint more accurate, it will fire more often and shorter time?

regards
paul

diverklondike · 1st May 2006, 20:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

hello all,

other question: is the juergensen firing method more batterie-consuming then the standard method??

I suppose as the juergensen method tries to track the setpoint more accurate, it will fire more often and shorter time?

regards
paul

I am not aware of any difference in battery burn between the two...

For what it's worth I dive the J-method.... It tracks extremely well....

Dive Safe...

Mark

paulraymaekers · 1st May 2006, 21:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

I am not aware of any difference in battery burn between the two...

For what it's worth I dive the J-method.... It tracks extremely well....

Dive Safe...

Mark

what IP is set in your config?
regards
paul

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 1st May 2006, 21:23

I'd also like to know the differences of how one setting versus the other fires. I keep my setpoint lower than what I dive. So, I really haven't had the chance to see. I'll still go this way after. However, I'd still like to know the differences in the patterns.

***jradomski*** · 1st May 2006, 22:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

I'd also like to know the differences of how one setting versus the other fires. I keep my setpoint lower than what I dive. So, I really haven't had the chance to see. I'll still go this way after. However, I'd still like to know the differences in the patterns.

the IP will determine the max gas flow through the orifece.. Set it like a normal reg around 9-9.5bar and you''ll get the best control on ascents without haveing too much flow should the solenid stick open.... If you have it lower you'll need to add gas (on ascent) to keep up..

The HH and older megs use a wattmeiser solenoid that can deliever about 37 lpm at 9 bar (assuming it was open full time), the current meg solenoid it would be 21lpm.. Paul at your 6 bar its only 24lpm

the longest firing time on a HH is 3 second on with 3 second off (a total of a 6 second cycle) so its actually capable of delievering 18.5 lpm. which is above the old minimum required by CE,

for a comparison point the meg with the new solenoid (since its about 10% less than your current flow) at the highest injection rate 3.5 second on/6 second off, that means about 6 cycles per minute, which means the current meg can only deliever ~7.7lpm (at 9 bar) which is below what used to be specified as the min of 12lpm.. At this flow a rapid ascent can have a sharp drop in PO2.. By my calculations at max injection, starting with an initial po2 of 1.3 the resulting po2 just ascending from 30m to 20m (at 10m/min) will be at worse about a 1.1 and at best about a 1.25.. This depends if gas is being vented or not..

The standards now allow for the SP to drop by .5 bar (yes thats not a typo) below sp and has 1 minute to recover.. too mcu for my taste..

heyydude · 1st May 2006, 22:28

The "Standard" firing works like the original Mark 15 Solenoid. 1 second on - no matter how close or far from the Set-Point.

This is a tribute to my roots. The original Smithers/Juergensen Digitals were designed for the MK 15 crowd.

The Mark 15 has a 50cc Accumulator, coupled with a 4 lpm Flow Restrictor - that makes the 1 second ON, a fine arrangement.

The "Juergensen Mode" is a proprietary algorithm we developed which adjusts it's firing based upon a number of factors, (including a secret blend of 11 herbs and spices) that help to maintain a very accurate Set-Point.

For almost everyone, that works the best.

Paul - listen to "the man" (me) - your IP of 6 bar is too low.

Adjust it back up to 8 to 11 and go with that.

If you want to use some sort of flow restrictor (not a half-bad idea), then try the "Standard" mode of Solenoid firing, and adjust the % away from Set-Point that will activate the firing cycle by adjusting the "Standard Error" control (BTW: I HATE that term, but it's a leftover from one of my previous software writers. What a lame-o...).

Anyway, this is one more example of how we've consistently tried to add versatility to the HH system (he says, while patting himself on the back...).

Kevin Juergensen
Juergensen Marine.

paulraymaekers · 2nd May 2006, 09:42

thanks Kevin, that's clear!

the IP is now at 9.5, next test in the pool :-)

regards
paul

1st May 2006, 19:55	#1 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,637	solenoid firing on HH hello all, other question: is the juergensen firing method more batterie-consuming then the standard method?? I suppose as the juergensen method tries to track the setpoint more accurate, it will fire more often and shorter time? regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

1st May 2006, 20:03	#2 (permalink)
diverklondike RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,713	Re: solenoid firing on HH Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) hello all, other question: is the juergensen firing method more batterie-consuming then the standard method?? I suppose as the juergensen method tries to track the setpoint more accurate, it will fire more often and shorter time? regards paul I am not aware of any difference in battery burn between the two... For what it's worth I dive the J-method.... It tracks extremely well.... Dive Safe... Mark
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1st May 2006, 21:08	#3 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,637	Re: solenoid firing on HH Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) I am not aware of any difference in battery burn between the two... For what it's worth I dive the J-method.... It tracks extremely well.... Dive Safe... Mark what IP is set in your config? regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

1st May 2006, 21:23	#4 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,215	Re: solenoid firing on HH I'd also like to know the differences of how one setting versus the other fires. I keep my setpoint lower than what I dive. So, I really haven't had the chance to see. I'll still go this way after. However, I'd still like to know the differences in the patterns. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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1st May 2006, 22:00	#5 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: solenoid firing on HH Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) I'd also like to know the differences of how one setting versus the other fires. I keep my setpoint lower than what I dive. So, I really haven't had the chance to see. I'll still go this way after. However, I'd still like to know the differences in the patterns. the IP will determine the max gas flow through the orifece.. Set it like a normal reg around 9-9.5bar and you''ll get the best control on ascents without haveing too much flow should the solenid stick open.... If you have it lower you'll need to add gas (on ascent) to keep up.. The HH and older megs use a wattmeiser solenoid that can deliever about 37 lpm at 9 bar (assuming it was open full time), the current meg solenoid it would be 21lpm.. Paul at your 6 bar its only 24lpm the longest firing time on a HH is 3 second on with 3 second off (a total of a 6 second cycle) so its actually capable of delievering 18.5 lpm. which is above the old minimum required by CE, for a comparison point the meg with the new solenoid (since its about 10% less than your current flow) at the highest injection rate 3.5 second on/6 second off, that means about 6 cycles per minute, which means the current meg can only deliever ~7.7lpm (at 9 bar) which is below what used to be specified as the min of 12lpm.. At this flow a rapid ascent can have a sharp drop in PO2.. By my calculations at max injection, starting with an initial po2 of 1.3 the resulting po2 just ascending from 30m to 20m (at 10m/min) will be at worse about a 1.1 and at best about a 1.25.. This depends if gas is being vented or not.. The standards now allow for the SP to drop by .5 bar (yes thats not a typo) below sp and has 1 minute to recover.. too mcu for my taste.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 2nd May 2006 at 02:36. Reason: typos
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1st May 2006, 22:28	#6 (permalink)
heyydude King of the Geeks Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Addison, Pennsylvania Posts: 380	Re: solenoid firing on HH The "Standard" firing works like the original Mark 15 Solenoid. 1 second on - no matter how close or far from the Set-Point. This is a tribute to my roots. The original Smithers/Juergensen Digitals were designed for the MK 15 crowd. The Mark 15 has a 50cc Accumulator, coupled with a 4 lpm Flow Restrictor - that makes the 1 second ON, a fine arrangement. The "Juergensen Mode" is a proprietary algorithm we developed which adjusts it's firing based upon a number of factors, (including a secret blend of 11 herbs and spices) that help to maintain a very accurate Set-Point. For almost everyone, that works the best. Paul - listen to "the man" (me) - your IP of 6 bar is too low. Adjust it back up to 8 to 11 and go with that. If you want to use some sort of flow restrictor (not a half-bad idea), then try the "Standard" mode of Solenoid firing, and adjust the % away from Set-Point that will activate the firing cycle by adjusting the "Standard Error" control (BTW: I HATE that term, but it's a leftover from one of my previous software writers. What a lame-o...). Anyway, this is one more example of how we've consistently tried to add versatility to the HH system (he says, while patting himself on the back...). Kevin Juergensen Juergensen Marine.
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2nd May 2006, 09:42	#7 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,637	Re: solenoid firing on HH thanks Kevin, that's clear! the IP is now at 9.5, next test in the pool :-) regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

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