New Liquivision X1 Battery Policy !

Hanssing

Wheew, finally. I allready bought mine, and have been extremely happy with your hardware, and V-planner live.

If you decide to change anything then please:
* Make the unit chargeble from USB-power!

* Make the USB-interface active without requiring the AC-adaptor to be plugged in!

* Make the unit so it doesnt need to be charging all the time (To extend battery-life)....

* MAke the unit so it doesnt need to be disconnected from charger when dis-/connection to charger-adaptor.

Its really annoying that in order to extend bettery-life the X1 should be on the charger at all times, and therefor has a more or less permanent place. I therefor have to lug the laptop to the charger to get downloads, would be nice if that was not needed.

Underwater: Dont change a thing :-) Just add the O2-interface....

Nicolai

__________________
Woohooo - I can change my rEvo!
Its going to be bitchin' tricked out piece of gear

lizardland

Similarly, it's done nothing to allay my worries or convince me to buy one. This isn't meant as a slight at Liquivision's business or a question mark over their viability but in today's climate who can say who is going to be around in 3yrs time, especially small volume, niche markets? "Complicated process" makes me think that this isn't something that many people can do, even with professional engineering facilities. If Liquivision isn't around then who does it? Do I have a $2000 paperweight?

If Shearwater or Delta-P go down the tubes tomorrow I know in five years I can still change the battery.

Cheers,

Stuart

__________________
Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you?

www.westons-cider.co.uk

Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler

Hanssing

Then you shouldn't.
The battery/casing is AFAIK a design chioce, one aimed at high robustness and deep dive depths. Its one of the reasons I bought it then, even when no warranty was in place, and no possibility of exchange.

Im sure that someone will try to do it. Will probably kill a few X1s
Perhaps they will succeed, but lets assume they dont:
Yes, a paper-weight, but its probably noth worth 2000$ then....

It could just be me, but are you planning on using your dive-computers for more than 5 years? Because I'm not.

I bought it. I take care of it. I hope it will live more than 5 years, but I'm not planning on it. My previous OC-style computers have lasted 2-3 years until they broke or got stolen.
In 5 years time who knows what computers are available? I only know that something way better/cooler is, and that I'm going to want it.

My leap of faith was the 10years expected lifetime of the battery design. But I know for sure that I will not be diving the computer in 10 years. If it lives for 5 years I'm happy

If its "only" 400$ for a replacement wich is needed perhaps once in its lifetime, then thats fine by me.

Nicolai

__________________
Woohooo - I can change my rEvo!
Its going to be bitchin' tricked out piece of gear

lizardland

Fair enough, everyone is free to buy their own dive kit. For me, the appeal is a computer that can be upgraded or have the software completely replaced. It's designed for longevity and if I'm investing $2k in that concept then I wouldn't be planning on it as a short term purchase. It's too much of a gamble for me, even if Liquivision are still around to maintain it, as Mempilot says it doesn't work for me financially, it's not that great a deal. What about when you start getting the old chestnut of "well, when we opened it we had to break xxxx in order to do that and that's not covered in the price"? There's more than one rebreather manufacturer who pulls that on a regular basis when stuff goes back for work.

I'm still using a 15yr old Uwatec Aladin Pro. I saw a recent pic of Jim Bowden, same computer on his wrist. Seems I'm in good company

I can change the battery, it'll happily do the depths I want (it's been below 100m enough times that I'm confident in it) and it's brilliantly reliable. Shame that you can't switch the bleeping off when I've bent it

The X1 is a very nice computer but it's not for me.

__________________
Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you?

www.westons-cider.co.uk

Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler

Mdemon

So 50 to 75% of battery life is... 10 to 15 hours between charges. Is your name Olivier Isler???! Do you recharge your torch every 10-15 hours????! No. Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

So buy a new one. Or get it serviced before you sell it. Ever bought a second-hand rebreather by any chance? Have you noticed how people get them serviced to boost resale value?


Crap. The VR£ has plummetted - I know as I'm trying to sell one. The reason? The X1 screen just mutilates the opposition. I own and use a Shearwater GF, a VR£ and an X1.

How much is your Rebreather/torch/dry suit worth after 5-10 years? Is second hand value how you pick your dive equipment? I'm as tight as two coats of paint, yet I buy on what a product can do for me NOW - second-hand value is almost off the list.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! Just buy and use the damned thing. Your queries will evaporate. Take maintenance; The X1 DOESN'T NEED IT! Unless the battery dies before the expected 10 years are up, and even then, by your own words, it'll still be showing 10-15 hours between recharges. You charge it, set it and use it. Period.

On the other hand, with the VR£, they rob you with all sorts of nonsense - "servicing", aka replacing o-ring. Then "something else broke" while that happened so you get stung for new board/electronics. I know many people who have had this. Ever had a button break on it? Add the fact that the VR£ has problems with batteries and can die (and has on me several times) mid-dive, then that 20 hours of X1 dive time is really important, and indeed excellent.

The Shearwater needs a new battery every, year? Easily done and robust and reliable, especially with Narked@90 down the road doing any repairs required.

However, having used an X1 in near-zero vis, relying on the built-in digital compass to navigate because I couldn't see my usual one, I can tell you that my preference is always going to be the X1, and I'm a great fan of Shearwater.

It really grips my shit when people take a trivial point like this and end up missing out on great functionality because of it. Just get past the paperwork folks, this is a GREAT piece of kit.

__________________
www.southwestmafia.com

"small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!"

The WRONG Attitude will get you killed.

"Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"

G4SSG

hi Mdemon
just a quick question
where did get yours from
uk dealer..?
martyn

diverklondike

Well put.... I am also bored of the dribble... Dive one and you will not want to give it back...

Mark

aainslie

I love BOTH of mine!

After years of getting nothing but crap (and massive repair bills for the fragile screen that needed frequent replacement) from Delta-P, now being able to deal with Erik, Margaret and Ross is an unallayed pleasure. And though I don't use Gap, I believe Kees is a great guy too. Something that people seem NOT to be offsetting against the supposed problem with the battery is that we have multiple, well-established software suppliers. If you hate one, then there's another to go to.

And there's better to come. Sometime soon we'll be seeing PO2 monitoring on the system. Who knows from there... this is a highly expandable unit.

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Andrew Ainslie

tdzao

To answer some questions:

1. User replaceable vs. Factory replaceable
Initially we wanted to make the battery user changeable, and that was in fact the plan. We had assembled together a $100 'kit' of tools and glues needed to perform the battery change. We use an expensive jig to do the change ourselves, but this is a huge expensive jig which obviously can't be included in the $100 kit. So, I played the part of an end-user and tried to change the battery without the jig, using only the kit tools. Although I managed, I cut my finger badly using the box cutter. It became clear that we could not expect users to perform a hazardous procedure. Maybe with special gloves, and special precautions, it could be done be the end user, but what would happen if someone hurt themselves and tried to take legal action? So the answer is yes, it is possible for a dexterous, technically savvy person to do the change, but it is not something we can advertise or recommend.

2. What if Liquivision ceased to exist?
The question was what happens if our company ceased to exist, how would you get the battery changed? If we had to go out of business for some reason, we would certainly release the procedures to change the battery, and most likely give our battery change jig to one of our best dealers (or guys like Narked@90), who could then accept a fee to do the changes.

3. Why $400 ?
We have only done small scale experiments, and don't really know how much it will cost us to do the changes on a large scale. If we screw up the change on a unit, we need to give the user a new unit, which costs us way more than $400. Ultimately, if we find that large scale changes are quick and effective, we would happily reduce the change fee to well under $400. But we don't know that yet. Our primary responsibility is to stay in business, otherwise our customers get no support at all.

4. Comparisons in terms of operating costs
If you want to compare the X1 operating cost to a VR3, you have to include all the repair & maintenance fees for the VR3 as well. Further, ask any of our customers, and you will certainly hear that they feel the X1 is a step above its competitors. If you have a better product, then don't be surprised if it costs more. If you want the cheapest computer available, then maybe a 2nd hand Nitek He would be a better choice.

5. Customer feedback
The battery policy was not just created at random, but was a result of extensive discussions on Liquivision's internal customer forum, where we took the advice of our own customers to create a well accepted policy.




Eric Fattah
Liquivision Products

wearypanda

There are plenty of other reasons why the scales tip in favour of the X1