Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer

Heliox Technologies · 24th October 2005, 05:27

The simulator for the Tachyon decompression computer is now ready for
download.

http://www.heliox.com/tachyonsimulator.html

Overview, product tour including a quick start, and technical specs
are updated. The download and registration tab are now live.

The Tachyon is a faithful and demonstrable implementation of the Eric Baker GF / Buhlman decompression model. It's a small, inexpensive, constant backlit computer, with a very simple user interface. It does any number of gases, open circuit, closed circuit and rebreather connected operation.

We take orders via sales@heliox.com

Our office is open from 8am to 6pm Pacific Time and our toll free number is: +1 877 303 BUDI (2834). For international callers, please see :

http://www.heliox.com/contact.html

Thanks, Heliox.

***jradomski*** · 24th October 2005, 05:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by Heliox Technologies)

The simulator for the Tachyon decompression computer is now ready for
download.

http://www.heliox.com/tachyonsimulator.html

Overview, product tour including a quick start, and technical specs
are updated. The download and registration tab are now live.

The Tachyon is a faithful and demonstrable implementation of the Eric Baker GF / Buhlman decompression model. It's a small, inexpensive, constant backlit computer, with a very simple user interface. It does any number of gases, open circuit, closed circuit and rebreather connected operation.

We take orders via sales@heliox.com

Our office is open from 8am to 6pm Pacific Time and our toll free number is: +1 877 303 BUDI (2834). For international callers, please see :

http://www.heliox.com/contact.html

Thanks, Heliox.

You state
"The simulator is a faithful implementation of Eric Baker's gradient factor method applied to the 16 tissue Buhlman model."

does that mean you have all the short commings that his implementation has?? IF you implement an alg that exacty matches his implementation, then multi-level dives that go shallower, don;t come up with good schedules.. His implementation only works if levels go deeper.. To implement one that works with levels shallower, there are certain assumptions that must be made and it will cause everything but square profiles to come up with different results than his own...
He clearly states his implementation was just meant as an illustration, the way he handles levels cant workin realtime, so the programmermust make assumptions which will take it awy from his schedule..

I ask this because none of your examples show multilevel profiles...

Drmike · 28th October 2005, 04:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

You state
"The simulator is a faithful implementation of Eric Baker's gradient factor method applied to the 16 tissue Buhlman model."

does that mean you have all the short commings that his implementation has?? IF you implement an alg that exacty matches his implementation, then multi-level dives that go shallower, don;t come up with good schedules.. His implementation only works if levels go deeper.. To implement one that works with levels shallower, there are certain assumptions that must be made and it will cause everything but square profiles to come up with different results than his own...
He clearly states his implementation was just meant as an illustration, the way he handles levels cant workin realtime, so the programmermust make assumptions which will take it awy from his schedule..

I ask this because none of your examples show multilevel profiles...

Any reply on this...?

***jradomski*** · 28th October 2005, 05:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Any reply on this...?

Still waiting....

***Decodiver*** · 28th October 2005, 09:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

Still waiting....

Great publicity for their product............

We are all still waiting.......

Cheers,

Disappointed.

**RichClark** · 28th October 2005, 09:22

Yep, Considering the fact that I'm buying a KISS I was particularly interested in this thread.... even went as far to subscribe

Cheers

***jradomski*** · 28th October 2005, 11:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

Yep, Considering the fact that I'm buying a KISS I was particularly interested in this thread.... even went as far to subscribe

Cheers

I wish he would answer this thread.. The reason I posed this question is because I have played with realtime GF programs for quite some time (I did my own implementation), so I know what all the possible pitfalls are.. doing tables is easy using E.B. source code for descending profiles.. you "KNOW" when the profile is over to start the GF generation.. In real time you have to decide how you are going to determine where the GF is calculated.. Even on a table generator if you follow his code EXACTLY and do shalower legs, what happens is that the GF is not computed until all legs are complete.. This means that the true intention of GF low is not realized..

Let me explain.. say you wanted a gf-low of 10, and you had a dive to 40m, with the next leg at 18m (time is irrelevant for the example), E.Bs code would allow you to directly ascent from 40m to 18m, then computes the gf starting from there..
Basically E.B. code processes all legs (tissue loading and unloading) then computes the gf based deco schedule. So you spend any time at 40m, you definately went past 10 on your asecent.. now you do your leg at 18m (the longer this leg is with a RIOCH gas) the closer this would be to the wanted gf..

A correct implementation would stop you somewhere between 40m and 18m (probably multiple stops).. Now if you do this you are handling the deco correctly but you can't call it a "faithfull" implementation since it wount generate the same numbers.. Now this is where different people have made different assumptions and why not all GF programs agree..

**RichClark** · 28th October 2005, 11:15

Thanks for the explanation Joe, it makes perfect sense. Now let's see if heliox respond.

Cheers

Rich

decoweenie · 28th October 2005, 15:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

say you wanted a gf-low of 10, and you had a dive to 40m, with the next leg at 18m (time is irrelevant for the example), E.Bs code would allow you to directly ascent from 40m to 18m, then computes the gf starting from there...

I won't participate in a lengthy discussion on this, but what you said is not correct. May be the way you are reading/interpreting the code is wrong, but that's not how I interpret the algorithm and program it for Decoweenie.

The Purist · 28th October 2005, 15:27

Well for the sake of argument I just ran the following profiles through the Heliox sim (arbitrary GFs and cr@p gas, but just an experiment to see how a shallow mulri-level leg is handled)

a) 40m for 30min on air, then b) 40m for 30min + 10m for 10min on air

a) came up with 1@18, 2@15, 4@12, 5@9, 37@6

b) came up with 1@18, 2@15, 4@12, 10@10, 36@6

So the ascent from 40 to 10 is handled exactly the same as the ascent from 40 to 0. (did the same test on Gap Mk 1 - coz it's free

- and for the second case there were no stops from 40 to 10)

So, from this result it looks like the code is smart enough to handle the shallower multi-level profile - I'll leave it to others to decide if that's a "faithful" implementation or not

24th October 2005, 05:27	#1 (permalink)
Heliox Technologies New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: California Posts: 4	Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer The simulator for the Tachyon decompression computer is now ready for download. http://www.heliox.com/tachyonsimulator.html Overview, product tour including a quick start, and technical specs are updated. The download and registration tab are now live. The Tachyon is a faithful and demonstrable implementation of the Eric Baker GF / Buhlman decompression model. It's a small, inexpensive, constant backlit computer, with a very simple user interface. It does any number of gases, open circuit, closed circuit and rebreather connected operation. We take orders via sales@heliox.com Our office is open from 8am to 6pm Pacific Time and our toll free number is: +1 877 303 BUDI (2834). For international callers, please see : http://www.heliox.com/contact.html Thanks, Heliox.
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24th October 2005, 05:44	#2 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Quote: (Originally Posted by Heliox Technologies) The simulator for the Tachyon decompression computer is now ready for download. http://www.heliox.com/tachyonsimulator.html Overview, product tour including a quick start, and technical specs are updated. The download and registration tab are now live. The Tachyon is a faithful and demonstrable implementation of the Eric Baker GF / Buhlman decompression model. It's a small, inexpensive, constant backlit computer, with a very simple user interface. It does any number of gases, open circuit, closed circuit and rebreather connected operation. We take orders via sales@heliox.com Our office is open from 8am to 6pm Pacific Time and our toll free number is: +1 877 303 BUDI (2834). For international callers, please see : http://www.heliox.com/contact.html Thanks, Heliox. You state "The simulator is a faithful implementation of Eric Baker's gradient factor method applied to the 16 tissue Buhlman model." does that mean you have all the short commings that his implementation has?? IF you implement an alg that exacty matches his implementation, then multi-level dives that go shallower, don;t come up with good schedules.. His implementation only works if levels go deeper.. To implement one that works with levels shallower, there are certain assumptions that must be made and it will cause everything but square profiles to come up with different results than his own... He clearly states his implementation was just meant as an illustration, the way he handles levels cant workin realtime, so the programmermust make assumptions which will take it awy from his schedule.. I ask this because none of your examples show multilevel profiles... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 24th October 2005 at 05:48.
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28th October 2005, 04:26	#3 (permalink)
Drmike RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,378	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) You state "The simulator is a faithful implementation of Eric Baker's gradient factor method applied to the 16 tissue Buhlman model." does that mean you have all the short commings that his implementation has?? IF you implement an alg that exacty matches his implementation, then multi-level dives that go shallower, don;t come up with good schedules.. His implementation only works if levels go deeper.. To implement one that works with levels shallower, there are certain assumptions that must be made and it will cause everything but square profiles to come up with different results than his own... He clearly states his implementation was just meant as an illustration, the way he handles levels cant workin realtime, so the programmermust make assumptions which will take it awy from his schedule.. I ask this because none of your examples show multilevel profiles... Any reply on this...? __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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28th October 2005, 05:30	#4 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Any reply on this...? Still waiting.... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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28th October 2005, 09:06	#5 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,194	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) Still waiting.... Great publicity for their product............ We are all still waiting....... Cheers, Disappointed. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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28th October 2005, 09:22	#6 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 793	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Yep, Considering the fact that I'm buying a KISS I was particularly interested in this thread.... even went as far to subscribe Cheers __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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28th October 2005, 11:05	#7 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,115	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) Yep, Considering the fact that I'm buying a KISS I was particularly interested in this thread.... even went as far to subscribe Cheers I wish he would answer this thread.. The reason I posed this question is because I have played with realtime GF programs for quite some time (I did my own implementation), so I know what all the possible pitfalls are.. doing tables is easy using E.B. source code for descending profiles.. you "KNOW" when the profile is over to start the GF generation.. In real time you have to decide how you are going to determine where the GF is calculated.. Even on a table generator if you follow his code EXACTLY and do shalower legs, what happens is that the GF is not computed until all legs are complete.. This means that the true intention of GF low is not realized.. Let me explain.. say you wanted a gf-low of 10, and you had a dive to 40m, with the next leg at 18m (time is irrelevant for the example), E.Bs code would allow you to directly ascent from 40m to 18m, then computes the gf starting from there.. Basically E.B. code processes all legs (tissue loading and unloading) then computes the gf based deco schedule. So you spend any time at 40m, you definately went past 10 on your asecent.. now you do your leg at 18m (the longer this leg is with a RIOCH gas) the closer this would be to the wanted gf.. A correct implementation would stop you somewhere between 40m and 18m (probably multiple stops).. Now if you do this you are handling the deco correctly but you can't call it a "faithfull" implementation since it wount generate the same numbers.. Now this is where different people have made different assumptions and why not all GF programs agree.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 28th October 2005 at 11:40.
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28th October 2005, 11:15	#8 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 793	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Thanks for the explanation Joe, it makes perfect sense. Now let's see if heliox respond. Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
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28th October 2005, 15:03	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) say you wanted a gf-low of 10, and you had a dive to 40m, with the next leg at 18m (time is irrelevant for the example), E.Bs code would allow you to directly ascent from 40m to 18m, then computes the gf starting from there... I won't participate in a lengthy discussion on this, but what you said is not correct. May be the way you are reading/interpreting the code is wrong, but that's not how I interpret the algorithm and program it for Decoweenie. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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28th October 2005, 15:27	#10 (permalink)
The Purist RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 102	Re: Heliox Technologies Tachyon Dive Computer Well for the sake of argument I just ran the following profiles through the Heliox sim (arbitrary GFs and cr@p gas, but just an experiment to see how a shallow mulri-level leg is handled) a) 40m for 30min on air, then b) 40m for 30min + 10m for 10min on air a) came up with 1@18, 2@15, 4@12, 5@9, 37@6 b) came up with 1@18, 2@15, 4@12, 10@10, 36@6 So the ascent from 40 to 10 is handled exactly the same as the ascent from 40 to 0. (did the same test on Gap Mk 1 - coz it's free - and for the second case there were no stops from 40 to 10) So, from this result it looks like the code is smart enough to handle the shallower multi-level profile - I'll leave it to others to decide if that's a "faithful" implementation or not
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