I'm not really happy with todays HUDS..

**Scott** · 19th February 2008, 05:28

What are your thoughts:

With a minimum of fluff.. I want my hud to tell me my ppO2 when I am near my setpoint.... let me know green = good, red = bad... and flashing red = your gonna dieeeeeee.... and let me know which of two setpoints I am on...

I propose a system utilizing 5 lights... Blue, Red, Green, Red, Blue
The blue's are used for indication of deco, and calibration... The reds are used to indicate alarm, setpoint way low/high, and setpoint slightly low/high when used with green... green means you are on or near setpoint...

Visual available at link below showing setpoints 1.2, 1.4 on deco, calibration in air, and calibration in O2 :

Green ONLY will show for +/- ppO2 0.05 of setpoint
Green and solid red high will show for readings from ppO2 0.05 to 0.1 above setpoint
Green and solid red low will show for readings from ppO2 0.05 to 0.1 below setpoint
a solid red low or solid red high will show for readings outside the previous ranges, but still life supporting
Flashing red low or Flashing red high will show for <0.2 or >1.6 respectively...

Before start of dive, you set up two setpoints.. dive (blues off), and deco (blues on solid) (blues flash on deco if out of life supporting range)

Before start of dive, you calibrate in air (left blue flash, right blue solid) and O2 (left blue solid, right blue flash)

Thoughts?

http://www.raawr.com/rbw/database/hudpattern.pdf

-Scott

Gobfish1 · 19th February 2008, 07:03

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...o_threadsearch

**Gill Envy** · 19th February 2008, 17:58

If I went back to diving eCCR's, I still think I'd find a way to integrate my shearwater HUD. All I can say to your proposal is that HUDS should be dedicated to PO2 only, as it's the one thing that can change quickly and kill you. It's the one thing you should be focussed on all the time. Everything else is negotiable. If you make it too complicated you'll likely zone out on it.

Having the HUD be po2 only and totally isolated from the set point controller would open that very motivating window into truly monitoring weather the life support system is doing what it's supposed to. I think one of the problems with an integrated HUD is that it's part and parcel, the same system you see on your handset and you are relying on it to alert you to a problem when the problem is likely related to the very system it's self. the reassurance is a deception, IMHO.

I really like that with a glance to my HUD and a glance to my wrist I have cross checked two systems and proportioned the monitoring of deco to po2 to a degree which reflects their order of importance.

but yeah, there is a lot to wade through on the above mentioned thread... worth checking out.

With an eCCR, I agree that red should only be used when things are truly going bad. on an mCCR you are constantly interpreting the information and using it to maintain the set point, color seems less critical because it's not being used as an alarm system.

Tienuts · 25th February 2008, 21:10

Why not a datamask with the PO2's displayed right on the readout.

undrh2o · 25th February 2008, 21:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts)

Why not a datamask with the PO2's displayed right on the readout.

Because a Datamask costs as much as 2 computers?

PnL · 4th May 2008, 19:57

Simple is better.

Typically you have two displays, your primary and your secondary, both independent/redundant. The HUD, IMO, is to alert you to potential problems, i.e,. if the ppO2 deviates from the setpoint it should alert you to this deviation and your immediate action/reaction should be to check your displays and act accordingly.

I believe that a HUD that gives too much information (lots of flashing and different colored lights) can make it less effective as your mind (eyes) tend to block out information it is not using, versus static green flashing (ppO2 at setpoint) followed by noticeable red flashing (ppO2 not at setpoint) should something be wrong - you will certainly notice this and check your displays immediately. I guess what I'm basically saying is that I agree with Gill :grin:

I'm really getting sold on the Laguna Research system but I'm still learning more about it. First impressions are that it looks very solid and well tested. Heard testimonials from divers who rely heavily on this system and it seems very robust. And almost everything is field replaceable - something that is required for expedition style diving were parts are not readily available.

paulraymaekers · 5th May 2008, 05:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott)

What are your thoughts:

With a minimum of fluff.. I want my hud to tell me my ppO2 when I am near my setpoint.... let me know green = good, red = bad... and flashing red = your gonna dieeeeeee.... and let me know which of two setpoints I am on...

I propose a system utilizing 5 lights... Blue, Red, Green, Red, Blue
The blue's are used for indication of deco, and calibration... The reds are used to indicate alarm, setpoint way low/high, and setpoint slightly low/high when used with green... green means you are on or near setpoint...

Visual available at link below showing setpoints 1.2, 1.4 on deco, calibration in air, and calibration in O2 :

Green ONLY will show for +/- ppO2 0.05 of setpoint
Green and solid red high will show for readings from ppO2 0.05 to 0.1 above setpoint
Green and solid red low will show for readings from ppO2 0.05 to 0.1 below setpoint
a solid red low or solid red high will show for readings outside the previous ranges, but still life supporting
Flashing red low or Flashing red high will show for <0.2 or >1.6 respectively...

Before start of dive, you set up two setpoints.. dive (blues off), and deco (blues on solid) (blues flash on deco if out of life supporting range)

Before start of dive, you calibrate in air (left blue flash, right blue solid) and O2 (left blue solid, right blue flash)

Thoughts?

http://www.raawr.com/rbw/database/hudpattern.pdf

-Scott

hello Scott, isn't this basicely what the rEvodream is doing?? (exept from the blue, and replacing the low red with orange)

have a look a the rEvodream manual on our website, you'll see how it works

paul

***caveseeker7*** · 5th May 2008, 08:54

Steam Machines PRISM Topaz (details in the article in the library):
slowly pulsating green = target setpoint
red flashing = high pO2
blue flashing = low pO2

Green and red are one LED, so the frequency helps the color blind.
The blue LED is a separate one.

Guilhem · 5th May 2008, 12:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

red flashing = high pO2
blue flashing = low pO2

Red is usually used for danger. Hypoxia is greater a danger than hyperoxia. Wouldn't it make more sense to then swap the code to red = low ppO2 / blue = high ppO2 ?

sunnyboy · 5th May 2008, 18:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Steam Machines PRISM Topaz (details in the article in the library):
slowly pulsating green = target setpoint
red flashing = high pO2
blue flashing = low pO2

Green and red are one LED, so the frequency helps the color blind.
The blue LED is a separate one.

My Prism manual states

RIGHT LED green (on, does not pulse) = system operating normally (i.e. target setpoint)
RED (dim) = Oxygen is 1/10 ATA above setpoint
RED (bright) = Oxygen is 2/10 ATA above setpoint
RED (flashing) = Oxygen PO2 is 1.55 ATA or greater

CENTER LED (blue)
OFF = A.OK.
ON = Oxygen is 2/10 ATA or more under setpoint.

RIGHT LED (red/green)
GREEN (flashing) = sensor(s) out of range
RED (flashing) = low battery power
(if both conditions are true, then this LED alternates flashing red/green).

IMO, this is one of the nicest HUD's to actually USE on a dive. Anything flashing, or any color than green means "check your secondary and then deal with the situation".

Cheers,

-Richard

19th February 2008, 05:28	#1 (permalink)
Scott Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Dolphin Ray Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mendota, Virginia Posts: 149	I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. What are your thoughts: With a minimum of fluff.. I want my hud to tell me my ppO2 when I am near my setpoint.... let me know green = good, red = bad... and flashing red = your gonna dieeeeeee.... and let me know which of two setpoints I am on... I propose a system utilizing 5 lights... Blue, Red, Green, Red, Blue The blue's are used for indication of deco, and calibration... The reds are used to indicate alarm, setpoint way low/high, and setpoint slightly low/high when used with green... green means you are on or near setpoint... Visual available at link below showing setpoints 1.2, 1.4 on deco, calibration in air, and calibration in O2 : Green ONLY will show for +/- ppO2 0.05 of setpoint Green and solid red high will show for readings from ppO2 0.05 to 0.1 above setpoint Green and solid red low will show for readings from ppO2 0.05 to 0.1 below setpoint a solid red low or solid red high will show for readings outside the previous ranges, but still life supporting Flashing red low or Flashing red high will show for <0.2 or >1.6 respectively... Before start of dive, you set up two setpoints.. dive (blues off), and deco (blues on solid) (blues flash on deco if out of life supporting range) Before start of dive, you calibrate in air (left blue flash, right blue solid) and O2 (left blue solid, right blue flash) Thoughts? http://www.raawr.com/rbw/database/hudpattern.pdf -Scott
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19th February 2008, 07:03	#2 (permalink)
Gobfish1 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 352	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...o_threadsearch __________________ Steve G Apparently not the only gay diver in the village http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/o...nzee-glock.gif http://www.scubatunes.com/audio/vol01/mp3/HiTech.mp3
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19th February 2008, 17:58	#3 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Diver Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,226	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. If I went back to diving eCCR's, I still think I'd find a way to integrate my shearwater HUD. All I can say to your proposal is that HUDS should be dedicated to PO2 only, as it's the one thing that can change quickly and kill you. It's the one thing you should be focussed on all the time. Everything else is negotiable. If you make it too complicated you'll likely zone out on it. Having the HUD be po2 only and totally isolated from the set point controller would open that very motivating window into truly monitoring weather the life support system is doing what it's supposed to. I think one of the problems with an integrated HUD is that it's part and parcel, the same system you see on your handset and you are relying on it to alert you to a problem when the problem is likely related to the very system it's self. the reassurance is a deception, IMHO. I really like that with a glance to my HUD and a glance to my wrist I have cross checked two systems and proportioned the monitoring of deco to po2 to a degree which reflects their order of importance. but yeah, there is a lot to wade through on the above mentioned thread... worth checking out. With an eCCR, I agree that red should only be used when things are truly going bad. on an mCCR you are constantly interpreting the information and using it to maintain the set point, color seems less critical because it's not being used as an alarm system. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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25th February 2008, 21:10	#4 (permalink)
Tienuts The man from Nantucket Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 137	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. Why not a datamask with the PO2's displayed right on the readout.
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25th February 2008, 21:16	#5 (permalink)
undrh2o Veteran Noob Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 190	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts) Why not a datamask with the PO2's displayed right on the readout. Because a Datamask costs as much as 2 computers?
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4th May 2008, 19:57	#6 (permalink)
PnL Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 168	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. Simple is better. Typically you have two displays, your primary and your secondary, both independent/redundant. The HUD, IMO, is to alert you to potential problems, i.e,. if the ppO2 deviates from the setpoint it should alert you to this deviation and your immediate action/reaction should be to check your displays and act accordingly. I believe that a HUD that gives too much information (lots of flashing and different colored lights) can make it less effective as your mind (eyes) tend to block out information it is not using, versus static green flashing (ppO2 at setpoint) followed by noticeable red flashing (ppO2 not at setpoint) should something be wrong - you will certainly notice this and check your displays immediately. I guess what I'm basically saying is that I agree with Gill :grin: I'm really getting sold on the Laguna Research system but I'm still learning more about it. First impressions are that it looks very solid and well tested. Heard testimonials from divers who rely heavily on this system and it seems very robust. And almost everything is field replaceable - something that is required for expedition style diving were parts are not readily available. __________________ SDTechDiving.com - A San Diego Technical Diving Community
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5th May 2008, 05:39	#7 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,349	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott) What are your thoughts: With a minimum of fluff.. I want my hud to tell me my ppO2 when I am near my setpoint.... let me know green = good, red = bad... and flashing red = your gonna dieeeeeee.... and let me know which of two setpoints I am on... I propose a system utilizing 5 lights... Blue, Red, Green, Red, Blue The blue's are used for indication of deco, and calibration... The reds are used to indicate alarm, setpoint way low/high, and setpoint slightly low/high when used with green... green means you are on or near setpoint... Visual available at link below showing setpoints 1.2, 1.4 on deco, calibration in air, and calibration in O2 : Green ONLY will show for +/- ppO2 0.05 of setpoint Green and solid red high will show for readings from ppO2 0.05 to 0.1 above setpoint Green and solid red low will show for readings from ppO2 0.05 to 0.1 below setpoint a solid red low or solid red high will show for readings outside the previous ranges, but still life supporting Flashing red low or Flashing red high will show for <0.2 or >1.6 respectively... Before start of dive, you set up two setpoints.. dive (blues off), and deco (blues on solid) (blues flash on deco if out of life supporting range) Before start of dive, you calibrate in air (left blue flash, right blue solid) and O2 (left blue solid, right blue flash) Thoughts? http://www.raawr.com/rbw/database/hudpattern.pdf -Scott hello Scott, isn't this basicely what the rEvodream is doing?? (exept from the blue, and replacing the low red with orange) have a look a the rEvodream manual on our website, you'll see how it works paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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5th May 2008, 08:54	#8 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,287	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. Steam Machines PRISM Topaz (details in the article in the library): slowly pulsating green = target setpoint red flashing = high pO2 blue flashing = low pO2 Green and red are one LED, so the frequency helps the color blind. The blue LED is a separate one. __________________ Cheers Stefan Be Water, My Friend - Bruce Lee Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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5th May 2008, 12:16	#9 (permalink)
Guilhem New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South-East France Posts: 55	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) red flashing = high pO2 blue flashing = low pO2 Red is usually used for danger. Hypoxia is greater a danger than hyperoxia. Wouldn't it make more sense to then swap the code to red = low ppO2 / blue = high ppO2 ?
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5th May 2008, 18:31	#10 (permalink)
sunnyboy New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ladysmith, B.C. Canada Posts: 86	Re: I'm not really happy with todays HUDS.. Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Steam Machines PRISM Topaz (details in the article in the library): slowly pulsating green = target setpoint red flashing = high pO2 blue flashing = low pO2 Green and red are one LED, so the frequency helps the color blind. The blue LED is a separate one. My Prism manual states RIGHT LED green (on, does not pulse) = system operating normally (i.e. target setpoint) RED (dim) = Oxygen is 1/10 ATA above setpoint RED (bright) = Oxygen is 2/10 ATA above setpoint RED (flashing) = Oxygen PO2 is 1.55 ATA or greater CENTER LED (blue) OFF = A.OK. ON = Oxygen is 2/10 ATA or more under setpoint. RIGHT LED (red/green) GREEN (flashing) = sensor(s) out of range RED (flashing) = low battery power (if both conditions are true, then this LED alternates flashing red/green). IMO, this is one of the nicest HUD's to actually USE on a dive. Anything flashing, or any color than green means "check your secondary and then deal with the situation". Cheers, -Richard
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