mCCR vs eCCR

OceanOpportunity · 3rd February 2007, 13:14

Hello folks,

With the many threads discussing advnatages/disadvantages of e- vs m- CCR, I'm hoping to consolidate some thoughts from all along the lines of this analogy:

it's like driving a stick versus an automatic. Both will get you where you need to go. A stick requires more education and interraction, but offers a less-complacent dive experience, and when used properly, you could get more mileage. And of course...less complicated construction for stuff to go wrong. On the other hand, an automatic is 'get in and go', requiring less thought and interraction by the user. However, the automatic appeals to the masses since there are more of them out there, and its easy to learn.

thoughts? expanded elements to the analogy, etc..it may be nice to evolve such into a short article on this forum or elsewhere...

iani · 3rd February 2007, 14:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by OceanOpportunity)

However, the automatic appeals to the masses since there are more of them out there, and its easy to learn.

thoughts? expanded elements to the analogy, etc..it may be nice to evolve such into a short article on this forum or elsewhere...

A rather US centric viewpoint here I think.

Ian

grandizer52 · 3rd February 2007, 14:53

hea ocean,
being a fellow new englandah...i'd say thats about an accurate portral
laytah
steve

Mark Chase · 3rd February 2007, 14:55

I own a sports car with a six speed stick shift. And i own a family car with an auto box.

The family car is a bus. It gets me from A-B the driving experience is secondary and only has small areas of key import like ABS comfort breaking and stability. Performance has to be adequate.

The sports car is totally different I often drive it just for the shear pleasure of driving it. QED I have to be in control, i switch off the traction control and Dynamic stability control and id switch off the ABS as well if i could then I go drive it.

I don't want or crave the experience of driving my CCR. I want it to be a bus. I want it to supply me with gas throughout the dive. Id rather not monitor it. Id rather not "fly" it I would like it to fade into the background ands just work so i can get on with my dive. I am in the water to dive not to fiddle with a bloody ccr.

Sadly it doesn't work like that so should the question be, What the point of ECCR?

Frankly the only argument i can think of is high task loaded dives. However are we just admitting that the boys behind the Video cameras are playing a dangerous game?

ATB

Mark Chase

RAL · 3rd February 2007, 14:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by iani)

A rather US centric viewpoint here I think.

Ian

Ok lets change it to a UK viewpoint. You have a car with Lucas electrical system & another car that has a electrical system that was designed by Ford ,toyota....ect pick one. You have to drive from London to Belfast in the middle of the night. Its January 7th & there is a hard blow coming in from the Noth sea. Which car do you pick?

Explorer · 3rd February 2007, 15:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by OceanOpportunity)

it's like driving a stick versus an automatic. ...

eCCR is like having cruise control on your vehicle.

You still have to watch the road ahead, you have to watch the other gauges on the console, etc.

mCCR is like keeping your foot on the gas pedal all the time.

I was taught to dive/drive/dive my eCCR manually and enjoy having the cruise control if needed.

Hope that helps a bit.

iani · 3rd February 2007, 15:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by RAL)

Ok lets change it to a UK viewpoint. You have a car with Lucas electrical system & another car that has a electrical system that was designed by Ford ,toyota....ect pick one. You have to drive from London to Belfast in the middle of the night. Its January 7th & there is a hard blow coming in from the Noth sea. Which car do you pick?

Ah, the US "prince of darkness" view of Lucas eh

Before I got into diving I used to spend my time on old Triumph cars so I'm very familiar with Lucas electronics and can't say I ever had any serious issues (12 Triumph cars over 10 year period). Had you picked Laycock overdrive electronics then I might agree with you

Ian

heyydude · 3rd February 2007, 15:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by RAL)

Ok lets change it to a UK viewpoint. You have a car with Lucas electrical system & another car that has a electrical system that was designed by Ford ,toyota....ect pick one. You have to drive from London to Belfast in the middle of the night. Its January 7th & there is a hard blow coming in from the Noth sea. Which car do you pick?

As the owner of a 1957 MGA since I was 15 years old (its still parked behind the Hangar here in PA), I learned early on the meaning of this joke:

"Why do the English drink warm beer?"
Answer: "Because they all have Lucas Refrigerators ..."

I love that joke...

Kevin.

RAL · 3rd February 2007, 16:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by iani)

Ah, the US "prince of darkness" view of Lucas eh

Before I got into diving I used to spend my time on old Triumph cars so I'm very familiar with Lucas electronics and can't say I ever had any serious issues (12 Triumph cars over 10 year period). Had you picked Laycock overdrive electronics then I might agree with you

Ian

A buddy of mine used to have an ol MG. He loved that car but the names he could come up with for the elec system.

RAL

Peter Piemonte · 3rd February 2007, 19:54

The Lucas three position switch:

Off
Dim
Flicker

Regards, Peter

3rd February 2007, 13:14	#1 (permalink)
OceanOpportunity for a world of water Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Providence, RI USA Posts: 543	mCCR vs eCCR Hello folks, With the many threads discussing advnatages/disadvantages of e- vs m- CCR, I'm hoping to consolidate some thoughts from all along the lines of this analogy: it's like driving a stick versus an automatic. Both will get you where you need to go. A stick requires more education and interraction, but offers a less-complacent dive experience, and when used properly, you could get more mileage. And of course...less complicated construction for stuff to go wrong. On the other hand, an automatic is 'get in and go', requiring less thought and interraction by the user. However, the automatic appeals to the masses since there are more of them out there, and its easy to learn. thoughts? expanded elements to the analogy, etc..it may be nice to evolve such into a short article on this forum or elsewhere... __________________ Michael Lombardi Oceans of Opportunity www.oceanopportunity.com Elected Director, Society for Human Performance in Extreme Environments MN'07, The Explorers Club Project Manager, Diving a Dream
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3rd February 2007, 14:43	#2 (permalink)
iani Nefarious Activist Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Middlesex, UK Posts: 334	Re: mCCR vs eCCR Quote: (Originally Posted by OceanOpportunity) However, the automatic appeals to the masses since there are more of them out there, and its easy to learn. thoughts? expanded elements to the analogy, etc..it may be nice to evolve such into a short article on this forum or elsewhere... A rather US centric viewpoint here I think. Ian
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3rd February 2007, 14:53	#3 (permalink)
grandizer52 Sport Kiss & Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: pearl city hawaii EARTH moving to Iscandar Posts: 254	Re: mCCR vs eCCR hea ocean, being a fellow new englandah...i'd say thats about an accurate portral laytah steve
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3rd February 2007, 14:55	#4 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,694	Re: mCCR vs eCCR I own a sports car with a six speed stick shift. And i own a family car with an auto box. The family car is a bus. It gets me from A-B the driving experience is secondary and only has small areas of key import like ABS comfort breaking and stability. Performance has to be adequate. The sports car is totally different I often drive it just for the shear pleasure of driving it. QED I have to be in control, i switch off the traction control and Dynamic stability control and id switch off the ABS as well if i could then I go drive it. I don't want or crave the experience of driving my CCR. I want it to be a bus. I want it to supply me with gas throughout the dive. Id rather not monitor it. Id rather not "fly" it I would like it to fade into the background ands just work so i can get on with my dive. I am in the water to dive not to fiddle with a bloody ccr. Sadly it doesn't work like that so should the question be, What the point of ECCR? Frankly the only argument i can think of is high task loaded dives. However are we just admitting that the boys behind the Video cameras are playing a dangerous game? ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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3rd February 2007, 14:56	#5 (permalink)
RAL Longbottom Time Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Florida Posts: 391	Re: mCCR vs eCCR Quote: (Originally Posted by iani) A rather US centric viewpoint here I think. Ian Ok lets change it to a UK viewpoint. You have a car with Lucas electrical system & another car that has a electrical system that was designed by Ford ,toyota....ect pick one. You have to drive from London to Belfast in the middle of the night. Its January 7th & there is a hard blow coming in from the Noth sea. Which car do you pick? __________________ The sea does not care about you.
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3rd February 2007, 15:07	#6 (permalink)
Explorer I will teach you a..... Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 772	Re: mCCR vs eCCR Quote: (Originally Posted by OceanOpportunity) it's like driving a stick versus an automatic. ... eCCR is like having cruise control on your vehicle. You still have to watch the road ahead, you have to watch the other gauges on the console, etc. mCCR is like keeping your foot on the gas pedal all the time. I was taught to dive/drive/dive my eCCR manually and enjoy having the cruise control if needed. Hope that helps a bit. __________________ 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves took turns doing handstands on the carpet
(Offline)

3rd February 2007, 15:12	#7 (permalink)
iani Nefarious Activist Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Middlesex, UK Posts: 334	Re: mCCR vs eCCR Quote: (Originally Posted by RAL) Ok lets change it to a UK viewpoint. You have a car with Lucas electrical system & another car that has a electrical system that was designed by Ford ,toyota....ect pick one. You have to drive from London to Belfast in the middle of the night. Its January 7th & there is a hard blow coming in from the Noth sea. Which car do you pick? Ah, the US "prince of darkness" view of Lucas eh Before I got into diving I used to spend my time on old Triumph cars so I'm very familiar with Lucas electronics and can't say I ever had any serious issues (12 Triumph cars over 10 year period). Had you picked Laycock overdrive electronics then I might agree with you Ian
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3rd February 2007, 15:21	#8 (permalink)
heyydude King of the Geeks Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Addison, Pennsylvania Posts: 356	Re: mCCR vs eCCR Quote: (Originally Posted by RAL) Ok lets change it to a UK viewpoint. You have a car with Lucas electrical system & another car that has a electrical system that was designed by Ford ,toyota....ect pick one. You have to drive from London to Belfast in the middle of the night. Its January 7th & there is a hard blow coming in from the Noth sea. Which car do you pick? As the owner of a 1957 MGA since I was 15 years old (its still parked behind the Hangar here in PA), I learned early on the meaning of this joke: "Why do the English drink warm beer?" Answer: "Because they all have Lucas Refrigerators ..." I love that joke... Kevin.
(Offline)

3rd February 2007, 16:12	#9 (permalink)
RAL Longbottom Time Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Florida Posts: 391	Re: mCCR vs eCCR Quote: (Originally Posted by iani) Ah, the US "prince of darkness" view of Lucas eh Before I got into diving I used to spend my time on old Triumph cars so I'm very familiar with Lucas electronics and can't say I ever had any serious issues (12 Triumph cars over 10 year period). Had you picked Laycock overdrive electronics then I might agree with you Ian A buddy of mine used to have an ol MG. He loved that car but the names he could come up with for the elec system. RAL __________________ The sea does not care about you.
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3rd February 2007, 19:54	#10 (permalink)
Peter Piemonte KISS and rEvo diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 147	Re: mCCR vs eCCR The Lucas three position switch: Off Dim Flicker Regards, Peter
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