revo wob

Drmike · 25th May 2008, 08:12

Paul what is the wob for the revo (axial or radial) in the normal prone position?

How does this compare to other units (in prone position)?

paulraymaekers · 25th May 2008, 09:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Paul what is the wob for the revo (axial or radial) in the normal prone position?

How does this compare to other units (in prone position)?

Mike, we only have the data in vertical position., 40m, 75l/min RVM, 3l tidal, 4°, air

The current supplied units, (axials only) with the standard breathing hose, Ray mouthpiece, 90° elbows in the breathinghose, using sodasorb, around 3.6 joule/liter

eliminating the 90° elbows brings it down to 3.1 joule/liter

changing sodasorb into sofnolime fine grade increases the WOB with +/- 0.2j/l (depending on how tight you pack your sorb)

the radial decreases this by +/- 0.3j/liter

a complet new mouthpiece would probably also decrease the WOB with a fair amount, as would some other things that we are studiing now

regards
paul

remember that we are talking about 75l/min

Philippe GERIN · 26th May 2008, 10:14

Great! Short clear Q => Short, clear A with all specs & variable factors. Bravo! If all manufacturers could give the same kind of answer, that'd be great.
Best
Philippe

Drmike · 26th May 2008, 10:43

Quote:

Mike, we only have the data in vertical position., 40m, 75l/min RVM, 3l tidal, 4°, air

The current supplied units, (axials only) with the standard breathing hose, Ray mouthpiece, 90° elbows in the breathinghose, using sodasorb, around 3.6 joule/liter

eliminating the 90° elbows brings it down to 3.1 joule/liter

changing sodasorb into sofnolime fine grade increases the WOB with +/- 0.2j/l (depending on how tight you pack your sorb)

the radial decreases this by +/- 0.3j/liter

a complet new mouthpiece would probably also decrease the WOB with a fair amount, as would some other things that we are studiing now

regards
paul

thanks for post paul (and the pms)

Quote:

remember that we are talking about 75l/min

What concerns me about the CE wob tests is naturally enough the mnf aim to get a good pass result but the test is with Rebreather vertical not a prone position test (way we mostly dive) so we dont know how a unit is really going to breathe on a dive.

My point:
Is it possible a unit can fail ce test in vertical position but breathe better when prone than one that passes??.

If thats possible I really dont see that the ce test is worth anything - as few if anyone dives vertical (unless they are decommisioning a mine

paulraymaekers · 26th May 2008, 11:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

thanks for post paul (and the pms)

What concerns me about the CE wob tests is naturally enough the mnf aim to get a good pass result but the test is with Rebreather vertical not a prone position test (way we mostly dive) so we dont know how a unit is really going to breathe on a dive.

My point:
Is it possible a unit can fail ce test in vertical position but breathe better when prone than one that passes??.

If thats possible I really dont see that the ce test is worth anything - as few if anyone dives vertical (unless they are decommisioning a mine)

Hello Mike, the CE test demands the WOB both in vertical and horizontal position. Now the vertical test is always more demanding then the horizontal test, because it adds the hydrostatical influence, and this does not only influence the peak pressures, but also the WOB

that's the reason we first test the vertical position: if it meets this, it always meets the horizontal.

paul

Drmike · 26th May 2008, 12:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

Hello Mike, the CE test demands the WOB both in vertical and horizontal position.

wow, I didnt know that.

Thats good to know.

So guess what my next question to Rebreather mnf is?

I mean, if they have prone wob results
why the hell are we looking at charts showing vertical ones?

Paul can we infer anything from vertical wob about what prone may be ? I assume not.

can you help with muy prev question?

Quote:

Is it possible a unit can fail ce test in vertical position but breathe better when prone than one that passes??.

Id hate to buy a unit with advertised great vertical wob if its horizontal wob is worse than a unit with crap vertical wob!

paulraymaekers · 26th May 2008, 12:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

can you help with muy prev question?

sorry, only tests can show this

paul

Marvintpa · 26th May 2008, 14:01

Paul, was the CE testing not complete? Do they not share all of the results?

I ask because I'm a little confused. You mentioned "the CE test demands the WOB both in vertical and horizontal position", but "we only have the data in vertical position".

paulraymaekers · 26th May 2008, 14:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marvintpa)

Paul, was the CE testing not complete? Do they not share all of the results?

I ask because I'm a little confused. You mentioned "the CE test demands the WOB both in vertical and horizontal position", but "we only have the data in vertical position".

we have not done the complete CE test at this moment, we only started with the critical ones!

at the moment w're learning and w're working at fine-tuning etc, to see what can be improved

a complete CE certification, if we succeed.. give us another 12 to 18 months!

paul

**jmurba** · 13th June 2008, 13:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

The current supplied units, (axials only) with the standard breathing hose, Ray mouthpiece, 90° elbows in the breathinghose, using sodasorb, around 3.6 joule/liter

eliminating the 90° elbows brings it down to 3.1 joule/liter
regards
paul

remember that we are talking about 75l/min

Salut Paul
Thanks for the datas
you say 90° elbows are increasing the wob from 3.1 to 3.6 is it a lot ?
I have no reference in terms of wob cause I've always dived the same rebreather and I have a 90° turning in my loop too, I am thinking of getting rid of it and wondered if it was worth doing it ?
regards
jean mi

25th May 2008, 08:12	#1 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,300	revo wob Paul what is the wob for the revo (axial or radial) in the normal prone position? How does this compare to other units (in prone position)? __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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25th May 2008, 09:25	#2 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,498	Re: revo wob Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Paul what is the wob for the revo (axial or radial) in the normal prone position? How does this compare to other units (in prone position)? Mike, we only have the data in vertical position., 40m, 75l/min RVM, 3l tidal, 4°, air The current supplied units, (axials only) with the standard breathing hose, Ray mouthpiece, 90° elbows in the breathinghose, using sodasorb, around 3.6 joule/liter eliminating the 90° elbows brings it down to 3.1 joule/liter changing sodasorb into sofnolime fine grade increases the WOB with +/- 0.2j/l (depending on how tight you pack your sorb) the radial decreases this by +/- 0.3j/liter a complet new mouthpiece would probably also decrease the WOB with a fair amount, as would some other things that we are studiing now regards paul remember that we are talking about 75l/min __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

26th May 2008, 10:14	#3 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 634	Re: revo wob Great! Short clear Q => Short, clear A with all specs & variable factors. Bravo! If all manufacturers could give the same kind of answer, that'd be great. Best Philippe
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26th May 2008, 10:43	#4 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,300	Re: revo wob Quote: Mike, we only have the data in vertical position., 40m, 75l/min RVM, 3l tidal, 4°, air The current supplied units, (axials only) with the standard breathing hose, Ray mouthpiece, 90° elbows in the breathinghose, using sodasorb, around 3.6 joule/liter eliminating the 90° elbows brings it down to 3.1 joule/liter changing sodasorb into sofnolime fine grade increases the WOB with +/- 0.2j/l (depending on how tight you pack your sorb) the radial decreases this by +/- 0.3j/liter a complet new mouthpiece would probably also decrease the WOB with a fair amount, as would some other things that we are studiing now regards paul thanks for post paul (and the pms) Quote: remember that we are talking about 75l/min What concerns me about the CE wob tests is naturally enough the mnf aim to get a good pass result but the test is with Rebreather vertical not a prone position test (way we mostly dive) so we dont know how a unit is really going to breathe on a dive. My point: Is it possible a unit can fail ce test in vertical position but breathe better when prone than one that passes??. If thats possible I really dont see that the ce test is worth anything - as few if anyone dives vertical (unless they are decommisioning a mine __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 26th May 2008 at 12:12.
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26th May 2008, 11:29	#5 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,498	Re: revo wob Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) thanks for post paul (and the pms) What concerns me about the CE wob tests is naturally enough the mnf aim to get a good pass result but the test is with Rebreather vertical not a prone position test (way we mostly dive) so we dont know how a unit is really going to breathe on a dive. My point: Is it possible a unit can fail ce test in vertical position but breathe better when prone than one that passes??. If thats possible I really dont see that the ce test is worth anything - as few if anyone dives vertical (unless they are decommisioning a mine) Hello Mike, the CE test demands the WOB both in vertical and horizontal position. Now the vertical test is always more demanding then the horizontal test, because it adds the hydrostatical influence, and this does not only influence the peak pressures, but also the WOB that's the reason we first test the vertical position: if it meets this, it always meets the horizontal. paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

26th May 2008, 12:05	#6 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,300	Re: revo wob Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) Hello Mike, the CE test demands the WOB both in vertical and horizontal position. wow, I didnt know that. Thats good to know. So guess what my next question to Rebreather mnf is? I mean, if they have prone wob results why the hell are we looking at charts showing vertical ones? Paul can we infer anything from vertical wob about what prone may be ? I assume not. can you help with muy prev question? Quote: Is it possible a unit can fail ce test in vertical position but breathe better when prone than one that passes??. Id hate to buy a unit with advertised great vertical wob if its horizontal wob is worse than a unit with crap vertical wob! __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment Last edited by Drmike : 26th May 2008 at 12:15.
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26th May 2008, 12:48	#7 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,498	Re: revo wob Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) can you help with muy prev question? sorry, only tests can show this paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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26th May 2008, 14:01	#8 (permalink)
Marvintpa Bad knees, matching brain Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 264	Re: revo wob Paul, was the CE testing not complete? Do they not share all of the results? I ask because I'm a little confused. You mentioned "the CE test demands the WOB both in vertical and horizontal position", but "we only have the data in vertical position".
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26th May 2008, 14:26	#9 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,498	Re: revo wob Quote: (Originally Posted by Marvintpa) Paul, was the CE testing not complete? Do they not share all of the results? I ask because I'm a little confused. You mentioned "the CE test demands the WOB both in vertical and horizontal position", but "we only have the data in vertical position". we have not done the complete CE test at this moment, we only started with the critical ones! at the moment w're learning and w're working at fine-tuning etc, to see what can be improved a complete CE certification, if we succeed.. give us another 12 to 18 months! paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

13th June 2008, 13:54	#10 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 860	Re: revo wob Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) The current supplied units, (axials only) with the standard breathing hose, Ray mouthpiece, 90° elbows in the breathinghose, using sodasorb, around 3.6 joule/liter eliminating the 90° elbows brings it down to 3.1 joule/liter regards paul remember that we are talking about 75l/min Salut Paul Thanks for the datas you say 90° elbows are increasing the wob from 3.1 to 3.6 is it a lot ? I have no reference in terms of wob cause I've always dived the same rebreather and I have a 90° turning in my loop too, I am thinking of getting rid of it and wondered if it was worth doing it ? regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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