CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts??

AD_ward9 · 18th April 2008, 18:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Ok... Lets follow the BOV example... What happens if you have a "CCR" that is CE approved and of course meets WOB requirements. Someone then takes an aftermarket BOV that is also CE approved and replaces the OEM BOV. The compination of the two due to hose sizes etc results in a rig that no longer meets CE WOB requirements. Are there any ramifications to that example?

M

If the BOV has a WOB and resistance lower than the manufacturer's (the method I suggested in my answer to get the BOV approved easily), and the original manufacturer complies with EN14143, then adapters to hoses are not going to make any significant difference.

Part of the safety case would have to include how the two parts are mated anyway, including strength of that connection etc.

Alex

**jmurba** · 21st April 2008, 14:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

If the BOV has a WOB and resistance lower than the manufacturer's (the method I suggested in my answer to get the BOV approved easily), and the original manufacturer complies with EN14143, then adapters to hoses are not going to make any significant difference.

Part of the safety case would have to include how the two parts are mated anyway, including strength of that connection etc.

Alex

I don't understand how the incidence in wob of replacing a dsv could be evaluated without puting the new dsv on a given rebreather and without putting this rebreather and the dsv on the breathing machine to see if the modified rebreather still meets the EN14143 ?

testing a bov itself would be a non sens, it is like testing a tire on a crash test without the car....

an other question,

imagine you take a buddy inspiration, you use a submatix injector and an ouroboros oxymeter... all the part will be EC tested and approved, but will the rebreather be approved ?

AD_ward9 · 21st April 2008, 22:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

I don't understand how the incidence in wob of replacing a dsv could be evaluated without puting the new dsv on a given rebreather and without putting this rebreather and the dsv on the breathing machine to see if the modified rebreather still meets the EN14143 ?

testing a bov itself would be a non sens, it is like testing a tire on a crash test without the car....

an other question,

imagine you take a buddy inspiration, you use a submatix injector and an ouroboros oxymeter... all the part will be EC tested and approved, but will the rebreather be approved ?

I explained the method you could do this and get the certification. We have published figures for the mouthpiece for the major RBs.

Alex

Ben Field · 22nd April 2008, 09:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

imagine you take a buddy inspiration, you use a submatix injector and an ouroboros oxymeter... all the part will be EC tested and approved, but will the rebreather be approved ?

Not all those parts are tested to CE

**jmurba** · 22nd April 2008, 13:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

I explained the method you could do this and get the certification. We have published figures for the mouthpiece for the major RBs.

Alex

Alex,
you did not anwser my question,
the draeger oxygauge has no EC certification as far as I know, should it be banned from europe ? it is a rebreather part
the golem bov and jetsam bov have no EC certification should they be banned from europe ? it is a rebreather part
diving computer that displays ppo2 like shearwater, hammerheads, and other ppo2 meter solded in europe have no EC certification, should it be banned ?
they are rebreather parts,
tecme stuff should they be banned from europe? they are rebreather parts
hydrogom shell should it be banned from europe ? it is a rebreather part ?
I personaly think that your interpretation are a little bit large
what do you want.
you want to have only 3 rebreather makers in europe , and not isolated parts ?
no law no obligation
only rebreathers are subjeted to the certification.
if someone what to assemble and sell a repbreather using different parts he will have to certify the rebreather, not the dsv, oxymeter, computer, fitting makers.
do you want shearwater, tecme, hydrogom, draeger to come to you for some legal and technical advice ?
enven if they came to you , how would you certify an isolate compoment without putting it on a rebreather ?
thw wob for ewample is the wofb of a rebreather no of a dsv...
I don't understand
you did not anwsered
regards
jean mi

UKSteve · 22nd April 2008, 13:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

Alex,
the draeger oxygauge has no EC certification as far as I know, should it be banned from europe ? <<Snip>>

Hi

Dont think anyone is suggesting anything should be banned... the point is equipment that is not CE marked cannot be sold commercially in Europe. It doesnt stop anyone importing it personally into Europe ..as many of us do!!

All Alex was doing was trying to explain how one might hypothetically obtain CE approval for equipment that is sold as "add-ons" to CE marked equipment.

Steve

**jmurba** · 22nd April 2008, 15:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by UKSteve)

Hi

Dont think anyone is suggesting anything should be banned... the point is equipment that is not CE marked cannot be sold commercially in Europe. It doesnt stop anyone importing it personally into Europe ..as many of us do!!

All Alex was doing was trying to explain how one might hypothetically obtain CE approval for equipment that is sold as "add-ons" to CE marked equipment.

Steve

His ,
a company can't sell any Equipement of individual protection in europe, sending an item in europe is selling in europe even by post.
In addition tecme is a european company, drager is also a european company,revo is a european company, narked at 90 sell rebreather parts from england as far as I know...anf I probably forget a couple of.
how many europeand dive shops or european website sell oxymeters from europe to european divers ?
how to abtain a certification where it is not a legal requirement ?

you said : All Alex was doing was trying to explain how one might hypothetically obtain CE approval for equipment that is sold as "add-ons" to CE marked equipment

alex said :Components for rebreathers are covered by EN14143:2003.

it means that the component must legaly be certified, and as no EPP can be sold in europe it means that drager is not on the legal side, same for tecme, narked at 90, etc etc
I think all those maker are perfectly in a legal situation.

In additon I don't mind what alex really meant, I just want to say, let's be careful soon or later this market will be so regulated that all the small companied will die.

if we ask laws for everything certification for everything we will loose our freedon to configurate oure rebreather the way we like to cause we are all adults intelligent enough to decide if it is wise to get non EC bov and to put it on a buffy , a sub, a drager or whatever.

regards

jean mi

UKSteve · 22nd April 2008, 16:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

In additon I don't mind what alex really meant, I just want to say, let's be careful soon or later this market will be so regulated that all the small companied will die.

if we ask laws for everything certification for everything we will loose our freedon to configurate oure rebreather the way we like to cause we are all adults intelligent enough to decide if it is wise to get non EC bov and to put it on a buffy , a sub, a drager or whatever.

I am confused by your comments. I dont see how being careful will help as the laws are already there! All part of the joy of being in the EU!!

Steve

**jmurba** · 22nd April 2008, 16:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by UKSteve)

I am confused by your comments. I dont see how being careful will help as the laws are already there! All part of the joy of being in the EU!!

Steve

the laws are there for rebreathers, not for components, that's what I ment
drager oxymeter is not a rebreather but a component, same for the others oxymeter solded in europe, they have no EC approvals, so are they illegals in your ipinion.
in my opinion no...

divetheworld · 23rd April 2008, 09:54

Jean, did you see the significance of this post? -> http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...tml#post182253

In respect to PO2 display devices.

"On the other hand, equipment used by individuals to help to prevent risks, but which do not have a protective function, such as alarm devices e.g., gas detectors or oxygen depletion detectors, are not classed as PPE."

Which means they dont fall under PPE but requires CE marking to other Directives.

18th April 2008, 18:05	#11 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,551	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) Ok... Lets follow the BOV example... What happens if you have a "CCR" that is CE approved and of course meets WOB requirements. Someone then takes an aftermarket BOV that is also CE approved and replaces the OEM BOV. The compination of the two due to hose sizes etc results in a rig that no longer meets CE WOB requirements. Are there any ramifications to that example? M If the BOV has a WOB and resistance lower than the manufacturer's (the method I suggested in my answer to get the BOV approved easily), and the original manufacturer complies with EN14143, then adapters to hoses are not going to make any significant difference. Part of the safety case would have to include how the two parts are mated anyway, including strength of that connection etc. Alex
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21st April 2008, 14:28	#12 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) If the BOV has a WOB and resistance lower than the manufacturer's (the method I suggested in my answer to get the BOV approved easily), and the original manufacturer complies with EN14143, then adapters to hoses are not going to make any significant difference. Part of the safety case would have to include how the two parts are mated anyway, including strength of that connection etc. Alex I don't understand how the incidence in wob of replacing a dsv could be evaluated without puting the new dsv on a given rebreather and without putting this rebreather and the dsv on the breathing machine to see if the modified rebreather still meets the EN14143 ? testing a bov itself would be a non sens, it is like testing a tire on a crash test without the car.... an other question, imagine you take a buddy inspiration, you use a submatix injector and an ouroboros oxymeter... all the part will be EC tested and approved, but will the rebreather be approved ? __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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21st April 2008, 22:16	#13 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,551	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) I don't understand how the incidence in wob of replacing a dsv could be evaluated without puting the new dsv on a given rebreather and without putting this rebreather and the dsv on the breathing machine to see if the modified rebreather still meets the EN14143 ? testing a bov itself would be a non sens, it is like testing a tire on a crash test without the car.... an other question, imagine you take a buddy inspiration, you use a submatix injector and an ouroboros oxymeter... all the part will be EC tested and approved, but will the rebreather be approved ? I explained the method you could do this and get the certification. We have published figures for the mouthpiece for the major RBs. Alex
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22nd April 2008, 09:07	#14 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,442	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) imagine you take a buddy inspiration, you use a submatix injector and an ouroboros oxymeter... all the part will be EC tested and approved, but will the rebreather be approved ? Not all those parts are tested to CE __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck
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22nd April 2008, 13:23	#15 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) I explained the method you could do this and get the certification. We have published figures for the mouthpiece for the major RBs. Alex Alex, you did not anwser my question, the draeger oxygauge has no EC certification as far as I know, should it be banned from europe ? it is a rebreather part the golem bov and jetsam bov have no EC certification should they be banned from europe ? it is a rebreather part diving computer that displays ppo2 like shearwater, hammerheads, and other ppo2 meter solded in europe have no EC certification, should it be banned ? they are rebreather parts, tecme stuff should they be banned from europe? they are rebreather parts hydrogom shell should it be banned from europe ? it is a rebreather part ? I personaly think that your interpretation are a little bit large what do you want. you want to have only 3 rebreather makers in europe , and not isolated parts ? no law no obligation only rebreathers are subjeted to the certification. if someone what to assemble and sell a repbreather using different parts he will have to certify the rebreather, not the dsv, oxymeter, computer, fitting makers. do you want shearwater, tecme, hydrogom, draeger to come to you for some legal and technical advice ? enven if they came to you , how would you certify an isolate compoment without putting it on a rebreather ? thw wob for ewample is the wofb of a rebreather no of a dsv... I don't understand you did not anwsered regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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22nd April 2008, 13:38	#16 (permalink)
UKSteve Still a novice... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weymouth, UK Posts: 557	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) Alex, the draeger oxygauge has no EC certification as far as I know, should it be banned from europe ? <<Snip>> Hi Dont think anyone is suggesting anything should be banned... the point is equipment that is not CE marked cannot be sold commercially in Europe. It doesnt stop anyone importing it personally into Europe ..as many of us do!! All Alex was doing was trying to explain how one might hypothetically obtain CE approval for equipment that is sold as "add-ons" to CE marked equipment. Steve
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22nd April 2008, 15:56	#17 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by UKSteve) Hi Dont think anyone is suggesting anything should be banned... the point is equipment that is not CE marked cannot be sold commercially in Europe. It doesnt stop anyone importing it personally into Europe ..as many of us do!! All Alex was doing was trying to explain how one might hypothetically obtain CE approval for equipment that is sold as "add-ons" to CE marked equipment. Steve His , a company can't sell any Equipement of individual protection in europe, sending an item in europe is selling in europe even by post. In addition tecme is a european company, drager is also a european company,revo is a european company, narked at 90 sell rebreather parts from england as far as I know...anf I probably forget a couple of. how many europeand dive shops or european website sell oxymeters from europe to european divers ? how to abtain a certification where it is not a legal requirement ? you said : All Alex was doing was trying to explain how one might hypothetically obtain CE approval for equipment that is sold as "add-ons" to CE marked equipment alex said :Components for rebreathers are covered by EN14143:2003. it means that the component must legaly be certified, and as no EPP can be sold in europe it means that drager is not on the legal side, same for tecme, narked at 90, etc etc I think all those maker are perfectly in a legal situation. In additon I don't mind what alex really meant, I just want to say, let's be careful soon or later this market will be so regulated that all the small companied will die. if we ask laws for everything certification for everything we will loose our freedon to configurate oure rebreather the way we like to cause we are all adults intelligent enough to decide if it is wise to get non EC bov and to put it on a buffy , a sub, a drager or whatever. regards jean mi __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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22nd April 2008, 16:04	#18 (permalink)
UKSteve Still a novice... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Weymouth, UK Posts: 557	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) In additon I don't mind what alex really meant, I just want to say, let's be careful soon or later this market will be so regulated that all the small companied will die. if we ask laws for everything certification for everything we will loose our freedon to configurate oure rebreather the way we like to cause we are all adults intelligent enough to decide if it is wise to get non EC bov and to put it on a buffy , a sub, a drager or whatever. I am confused by your comments. I dont see how being careful will help as the laws are already there! All part of the joy of being in the EU!! Steve
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22nd April 2008, 16:24	#19 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 659	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Quote: (Originally Posted by UKSteve) I am confused by your comments. I dont see how being careful will help as the laws are already there! All part of the joy of being in the EU!! Steve the laws are there for rebreathers, not for components, that's what I ment drager oxymeter is not a rebreather but a component, same for the others oxymeter solded in europe, they have no EC approvals, so are they illegals in your ipinion. in my opinion no... __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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23rd April 2008, 09:54	#20 (permalink)
divetheworld Dive porn pimp Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Classic Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,505	Re: CE Testing/Approval of Component Parts?? Jean, did you see the significance of this post? -> http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebre...tml#post182253 In respect to PO2 display devices. "On the other hand, equipment used by individuals to help to prevent risks, but which do not have a protective function, such as alarm devices e.g., gas detectors or oxygen depletion detectors, are not classed as PPE." Which means they dont fall under PPE but requires CE marking to other Directives. __________________ Self praise is no reccomendation. Dont try to be a great man, just be a man and let history be the judge of you. CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *http://www.grpservices.com/pursuit/* Supporting Shearwater Research Products in Europe Last edited by divetheworld : 23rd April 2008 at 09:56.
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