Where to start: discussing with a notified body?

paulraymaekers · 20th March 2008, 12:14

Hello all:

At the moment is seems not so easy to have the CE 14143 changed that it allows mCCR's.
But it is also clear that a unit does not have to meet all the requirements, and still get a CE rating, if it does not concern a life-critical item.

So it depends on the notified body that goes over the technical file, and wether or not it finds the file to comply with the standard or not.

so it seems that an easier way to get mCCR's CE rated, would be starting a discussing with a notified body, and convince them that the unique properties of the mCCR's, wich make them impossible to meet certain criteria, are not life-critical, but just have an improved safety.

criteria that are not met by mCCR's:
mCCR's do not automaticallly maintain a breatheble PPO2: they will fail the test on the breathing machine both hypoxic and hyperoxic

all other tests in CE can be applied to both eCCR and mCCR

so to what notified body, who, can this discussion be adressed to?

paul

Gene_Hobbs · 10th April 2008, 16:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

so to what notified body, who, can this discussion be adressed to?

Hi Paul,

Have you tried talking to Gavin Anthony at QinetiQ in Alverstoke? He was active in the development and testing of the UK standard.

Good luck!

AD_ward9 · 10th April 2008, 17:03

Hi Paul,

Gavin Anthony is not a Notified Body AFAIK, and Qinetiq are not listed as PPE Notified Bodies for this type of PPE, but it would be best to check with him at source by emailing or phoning him: he is a very helpful gentleman, has lots of good test facilities in house and the experience to use them.

The Notified Body you want is Mark Dawes at the Bradford office of SGS. I will PM his email and phone number. There are two others in Europe who are accredited for this, but Mark Dawes is the best in my view.

Cheers

Alex

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

Hello all:

At the moment is seems not so easy to have the CE 14143 changed that it allows mCCR's.
But it is also clear that a unit does not have to meet all the requirements, and still get a CE rating, if it does not concern a life-critical item.

So it depends on the notified body that goes over the technical file, and wether or not it finds the file to comply with the standard or not.

so it seems that an easier way to get mCCR's CE rated, would be starting a discussing with a notified body, and convince them that the unique properties of the mCCR's, wich make them impossible to meet certain criteria, are not life-critical, but just have an improved safety.

criteria that are not met by mCCR's:
mCCR's do not automaticallly maintain a breatheble PPO2: they will fail the test on the breathing machine both hypoxic and hyperoxic

all other tests in CE can be applied to both eCCR and mCCR

so to what notified body, who, can this discussion be adressed to?

paul

Nad · 10th April 2008, 17:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

Hello all:

At the moment is seems not so easy to have the CE 14143 changed that it allows mCCR's.
But it is also clear that a unit does not have to meet all the requirements, and still get a CE rating, if it does not concern a life-critical item.

So it depends on the notified body that goes over the technical file, and wether or not it finds the file to comply with the standard or not.

so it seems that an easier way to get mCCR's CE rated, would be starting a discussing with a notified body, and convince them that the unique properties of the mCCR's, wich make them impossible to meet certain criteria, are not life-critical, but just have an improved safety.

criteria that are not met by mCCR's:
mCCR's do not automaticallly maintain a breatheble PPO2: they will fail the test on the breathing machine both hypoxic and hyperoxic

all other tests in CE can be applied to both eCCR and mCCR

so to what notified body, who, can this discussion be adressed to?

paul

Mmmh, maybe starting with a different approach: not necessarily improved safety but another way to reach the criteria without to be life-critical. Simply another way to practice the same theory without drastical changements on the previous statements.

Just my two cents.

Cheers

Nad

20th March 2008, 12:14	#1 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,384	Where to start: discussing with a notified body? Hello all: At the moment is seems not so easy to have the CE 14143 changed that it allows mCCR's. But it is also clear that a unit does not have to meet all the requirements, and still get a CE rating, if it does not concern a life-critical item. So it depends on the notified body that goes over the technical file, and wether or not it finds the file to comply with the standard or not. so it seems that an easier way to get mCCR's CE rated, would be starting a discussing with a notified body, and convince them that the unique properties of the mCCR's, wich make them impossible to meet certain criteria, are not life-critical, but just have an improved safety. criteria that are not met by mCCR's: mCCR's do not automaticallly maintain a breatheble PPO2: they will fail the test on the breathing machine both hypoxic and hyperoxic all other tests in CE can be applied to both eCCR and mCCR so to what notified body, who, can this discussion be adressed to? paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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10th April 2008, 16:44	#2 (permalink)
Gene_Hobbs Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Durham, NC, USA Posts: 113	Re: Where to start: discussing with a notified body? Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) so to what notified body, who, can this discussion be adressed to? Hi Paul, Have you tried talking to Gavin Anthony at QinetiQ in Alverstoke? He was active in the development and testing of the UK standard. Good luck! __________________ http://rubicon-foundation.org/ Home of the Rubicon Research Repository. For help getting started with the Repository, please visit our FAQ page. PLEASE support our work. "Oxygen is addictive and deadly. Everyone who uses it will eventually die" --RW Hamilton, PhD 1991
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10th April 2008, 17:03	#3 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,602	Re: Where to start: discussing with a notified body? Hi Paul, Gavin Anthony is not a Notified Body AFAIK, and Qinetiq are not listed as PPE Notified Bodies for this type of PPE, but it would be best to check with him at source by emailing or phoning him: he is a very helpful gentleman, has lots of good test facilities in house and the experience to use them. The Notified Body you want is Mark Dawes at the Bradford office of SGS. I will PM his email and phone number. There are two others in Europe who are accredited for this, but Mark Dawes is the best in my view. Cheers Alex Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) Hello all: At the moment is seems not so easy to have the CE 14143 changed that it allows mCCR's. But it is also clear that a unit does not have to meet all the requirements, and still get a CE rating, if it does not concern a life-critical item. So it depends on the notified body that goes over the technical file, and wether or not it finds the file to comply with the standard or not. so it seems that an easier way to get mCCR's CE rated, would be starting a discussing with a notified body, and convince them that the unique properties of the mCCR's, wich make them impossible to meet certain criteria, are not life-critical, but just have an improved safety. criteria that are not met by mCCR's: mCCR's do not automaticallly maintain a breatheble PPO2: they will fail the test on the breathing machine both hypoxic and hyperoxic all other tests in CE can be applied to both eCCR and mCCR so to what notified body, who, can this discussion be adressed to? paul Last edited by AD_ward9 : 10th April 2008 at 17:49.
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10th April 2008, 17:38	#4 (permalink)
Nad Rebel to the Bone Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 941	Re: Where to start: discussing with a notified body? Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) Hello all: At the moment is seems not so easy to have the CE 14143 changed that it allows mCCR's. But it is also clear that a unit does not have to meet all the requirements, and still get a CE rating, if it does not concern a life-critical item. So it depends on the notified body that goes over the technical file, and wether or not it finds the file to comply with the standard or not. so it seems that an easier way to get mCCR's CE rated, would be starting a discussing with a notified body, and convince them that the unique properties of the mCCR's, wich make them impossible to meet certain criteria, are not life-critical, but just have an improved safety. criteria that are not met by mCCR's: mCCR's do not automaticallly maintain a breatheble PPO2: they will fail the test on the breathing machine both hypoxic and hyperoxic all other tests in CE can be applied to both eCCR and mCCR so to what notified body, who, can this discussion be adressed to? paul Mmmh, maybe starting with a different approach: not necessarily improved safety but another way to reach the criteria without to be life-critical. Simply another way to practice the same theory without drastical changements on the previous statements. Just my two cents. Cheers Nad __________________ The Impossible is often the Untried
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