Drager CCR vs. Other Rebreathers

Bellhemen

Hello,

I need a rebreather but my wife says I can't afford a
rEvo. Something about buy a house, not a bachelor
anymore, whatever....

I've been studying them, reading all the posts on this
and other sites. I have extensive diving background.
That said, I'm wondering how well does a converted
Drager work? Specifically compared to a Kiss Sport.

I like to tinker with things and can't leave anything
alone. If I had a KS I'd build pod protectors and
incorporate some sort of a stand and more then
likely change out the DSV. Cost wise I can modify
a drager to full CCR with all the options I'd want
for alot less than the cost of used Kiss Sport (I
think).

So back to my question, does the Drager CCR work
well? Bouyancy, trim etc. Or is the a waste of time,
money and effort?

I want a rebreather for mostly recreational depths,
but with the ability to do dives to 300'. And most
importantly, be comfortable.

Edmund

Hi,

I bought a Drager Dolphin 5 years ago, dove it SCR for 2 years, then took 6 months to convert it to CCR, a year more to get it to feel comfortable and to teach myself CCR. Only reason I didn't get a KISS was due to limited training/availability on Oahu and most shops are still open circuit. Also had to find suppliers for all the extra parts.

If I were to start over now I would just get a KISS, I would be having fun alot faster. However, I sure did learn alot converting SCR to CCR.

Dive Safe

silent running

Hello Bellhemen,

First, you should be aware that a Sport Kiss is not designed to be used for deep-300ft-dives.

A friend of mine has converted several Dolphin and Atlantis units to CCR and is very happy with them. I have done many dives with him using these and he never had any problems. But his most recent conversion was to a Ray which he liked better for it's smaller size and slightly easier work of breathing. The only disadvantage of the Ray is the smaller size of the scrubber compared to the Dolphin, which may not be such a big deal if your dives are not too long.

With both Drager CCR conversions my friend used 3 sensors, 3 Kiss displays and regular, depth compensating 1st stages with a needle valve for the O2 delivery. They were the combination 1st stage/tank valve made by Apollo if I remember correctly. These and the diluent side were also fitted with the 1st stage/valve combo on small, 1 ltr tanks which were slipped into the Dolphin side weight pockets, with the stock nitrox cylinder slung underneathe in the stock position for open circuit bail out. I think he did a similar thing with the Ray, haven't seen that one yet. It's a very compact and simple system and of course, it's cheap too.

I dived a Dolphin SCR for several years before I got an ECCR and I think it has better work of breathing than the Classic Kiss I tried for a few hours. This is probably due to the fact that the counter-lungs are mounted up high and have only a thin pc of fabric between them and the diver's body which keeps them as close to your chest cavity/lungs as possible and allows the lungs to conform to the shape of your back. The CK and SK both have their counter-lungs inside a metal housing and further away from the body than the Dolphin.

I think the Dolphin design is pretty well thought out and the only thing I didn't like about was the finicky demand valve addition which would now be connected to the diluent. But there is some adjustability and it can/probably should be backed up by adding a diluent manual add button like the one you would have on the O2 side.

If I remember correctly, the entire conversion was just under $1500US
+ the cost of the used SCR, that was about 5 years ago. If you wan't more info, check the Diveoz rebeather forum as this conversion was developed by somebody on there. There were also some pictures and and a description floating around somewhere else on the net, so google it. Happy trails, -Andy

kybrt

have you considered another wife????

__________________
Marv


Fidelis Ad Mortem
www.diveboatkaren.com

sailor

Hi, i`m diving a mCCR Dolphin converted with TECME parts.
I`m unable to compare with kiss-units as i didn´t dive any kiss sofar.
Beside the basic disadvantages of mCCR in general (PO2 and deco depends on manual O2 addition) im quite happy with the unit.
I found the trim and WOB quite nice.
Check Tauchen - Cave, Nitrox, Rebreather Ausbildung, Tec Ausrüstung, Reisen for the parts. The site is in German and English.
There`s another site, Startpagina for the Hydrogom O2 addition valve.
I´m using the original 2nd generation Draeger diaphragm 1st stage for the O2 addition with an increased fixed IP of 19 bar.
This is due to the sonic constant flow jet providing 0,8 Ltr. of O2 per minute inside the Hydrogom valve.
That is mathematically good for 90 mtrs. / 300 ft and that´s where i went with the unit already without any issue.
I started with the tube-style triple cell O2-monitor from Tecme but switched over to the Shearwater Pursuit computer integrated with triple Po2 cell monitoring.
The pursuit is currently only good for mCCR and not SCR but integrates deco calculation.
Another advantage of this conversion is that you can easily convert the Dolphin back to SCR within minutes when required.
I have to say that in the meantime there´s another CCR in my possesion but i still like the Dolphin.

Bellhemen

That would be awesome to have another wife, or 2 or 3.
But how would that help me buy a rEvo? I'm sure my wife
already needs new shoes. I don't want to have to buy 2
pair.

Anyway, thank you all for the advice. I think I'll pursue a
Drager conversion.

Barrie Law

Yea sounds like a plan?

__________________
Barrie Law
Rebreather World Store
Supplying the Rebreather World

Tel:US +19548403892 Fax:US+19543333792
Tel:EU+442071930496 Fax:EU+442077606344
Mobile+353876880628 Skype:barrielaw
Email: barrie@rebreatherworldstore.com

bletso

I have been diving a Dolphin MCCR since the real old days. The total conversion cost less than $1000,00. I use my own no buzzer/alarm PO2 gauges. I use bird precision orifices. With planning, the conversion can cost very little. It depends on how you intend on diving it. Mine is designed for 100 msw, though I have only done it to 70. It is also designed to switch off-board gases on the fly

www.airheadsscuba.com/rbrsprt.html the links to my various pages is from there.

The dolphin is easy to breathe, easy to clean, easy to modify and it is operator friendly. It does have some idiosyncrasies, as they all do.

Dale

Smudgegs

Very interesting as always guys, I'm currently diving a standard Dolphin and liking it lots but living on the East Coast of the UK a lot of the really nice wrecks are in the 40 to 70m range. (and deeper, but that's another argument!)
It has occurred to me that by adding O2 injection I could extend my depth range.. and indeed by closing the set I'm told a max depth of 80metres is realistic...
But 60/70 metres is a *long* way down when all's said and done, and I'm not sure if commercial boats will allow me on with what is effectively a homebuild
I guess it all comes down to money lol buy a KISS and a course and avoid all the aggro or convert the set I use and understand and put up with the hassles and self education (and being excluded from any major diving organisation!)

divetheworld

Are you using a special orifice?
The hydrogom I had from Jeroen runs a 0.009mm orifice.

0.8ltr/min flow on a 0.009 orifice means an IP of 13.9 (rounded).
At 19 bar (assuming no IP creep that is designed into the Draeger valves) means a flow of a nads over 1ltr/min.
To get a flow of 0.8 from an IP of 19 bar you need a 0.0077mm orifice.


Brent

__________________