Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer?

**Dave Sutton** · 19th March 2008, 06:17

Does it come with a set of wire-cutters for an emergency?

Dave

.

silent running · 19th March 2008, 06:43

If you want your dive comp to tell you that you've forgot to turn on the dil or O2 valve, you could also rig up the valves to a magnetic contact that is completed when the valve is opened and which is connected to the same wireless transmitter that gives you tank pressure. Then it's a simple on/off switch, not a numeric PSI/BAR number that has to be sensed and validated as "low" and which would add a step of computing power/time just to let you know that you forgot to open your valves. It could be the first thing which the computer validates, before tank pressure.

Oh and one small detail(!)-make sure you can easily reach the valves, so that if you "get the message" that you jumped in with the valves off, you can open them in a split second...

***caveseeker7*** · 19th March 2008, 06:45

An option for people with rebreathers that come without a decent cowling, Dave.

Brainx3 · 19th March 2008, 06:54

Hi,

That looks nice, but too many wires. I would still prefer the wireless way through my mask. Although I use VR3 and I have a 4th cell attached to my unit and the wiring looks much simplar than this octupus in the picture

Best Regards. Wael

***caveseeker7*** · 19th March 2008, 07:41

While it looks pretty wild in the case, I doubt the wires are an issue.

Two wires from the HP links to the box, and a third one for the sensor.
Run the wires along the gas hoses and I doubt you notice them much.
Two wires coming out of the box, one for the VR3 and one for the HUD.
Run the HUD's along the hose like everyone else's HUD wire, and the
VR3's along the arm like any other cell-integrated computer or pO2 display.

Wireless integration is nice if it works reliably and shows both O2 and
tank pressure continuously, without having to scroll through menus.

A Rebreather version of the data mask would be nice, maybe now that Hollis
will produce the PRISM 2 they'll take it into consideration.

The URM on the other hand is available now for those who want and can afford it.

lizardland · 19th March 2008, 07:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Before Closed Circuit Research's Ouroboros and Sentinel CCRs that technology was used in the Cis-Lunar MK-5p, not only for the O2 and dil inside the case, but with optional pressure transducer also the two tanks that can be mounted on the outside.

And as was pointed out last week, all that info available on the CL hasn't stopped anyone from diving it with the O2 turned off, at least two accidents?

Ignoring one alarm is just as easy as ignoring another.

I've come very close to blacking out in the shallows because I was stupid enough to be trying to put my fins on with dil in the loop, the DSV in and the O2 off (0.13 was the highest reading on the display). It scared the shite out of me, more than anything else that's happened to me on a rebreather. Would an alarm have helped? I doubt it, I would probably have thought "will you shut the f*** up, I'm only going to be a second...".

Perhaps a breathalyser in the DSV as well to check for alcohol? Or a sensor in the pee valve to check for dehydration?

dave t · 19th March 2008, 07:59

I dive my rebreathers with button gauges on the dil and o2 first stages.

If I run out of dil I can tell cos the adv doesnt work...switch on bailout cylinder which is plugged into loop or just come up a bit

If I run out of o2 I will notice the po2 dropping....switch to offboard gas/go semi-closed or bailout.

I have done it this way for about 4 years and my reasons, I dont like lots of clutter, I dont trust HP gauges around o2 and it removes some failure points.

I ALWAYS do full pre dive checks and I ALWAYS recheck once I am in the water.

sometimes adding more alarms and failsafes just makes things fail!!

Dave

Brainx3 · 19th March 2008, 08:12

Hi,

Well, checking for dehydration, Alcohol Sensor, and what else you want? Are you talking about a rebreather unit or a rebreather cabin with tens of sensors now? or maybe a personal sub with a waitress?

I think the idea of the Data Mask is actually fantastic in the PPO2 would be monitored within the mask then CCR diving rule #1 won't be an issue anymore as the user will be able to literally to know his/her PPO2 all the time (As every second). I actually think the idea would be excellent to add up additional wireless display instead of simple HUDs, so users can have exaact duplications of what the original handsets are showing OR just to copy the main features that divers need to know regarding decompression stops, tanks pressure, depth, PPO2, etc. But since that it's available yet in an integrated wireless package yet then I think Data Mask with the current HUDs is the closest to that. I appreciate the mask especially when diving in 2 degrees dark water with Remaining Air Time feature.

Best Regards. Wael

***caveseeker7*** · 19th March 2008, 08:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

Ignoring one alarm is just as easy as ignoring another.

If you read the last sentence in my post (#10) you'll see that I agree.

Diving a KISS I believe that there is safety in simplicity, I have small diameter gauges I check before the dive, at the beginning of the dive and during the dive.

The O2 gauge is routed alongside the KISS valve, so I usually look at it whenever I add gas.

But Chris asked if it had been thought of before, and indeed it has.
As I said, it's available for those who want and can afford it.
Not for me at this point, but I can appreciate having the option.

And for completeness' sake, the Poseidon/Cis-Lunar Mk-6 prototypes also have digital high pressure gauges, contents displayed on the handset, with low pressure (actually general 'consumables low') warning on the HUD.

lizardland · 19th March 2008, 09:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

If I run out of dil I can tell cos the adv doesnt work...switch on bailout cylinder which is plugged into loop or just come up a bit... If I run out of o2 I will notice the po2 dropping....switch to offboard gas/go semi-closed or bailout.

Exactly the way I dive though I don't even bother with the button gauges. I add a SPG to my dil when I'm cave diving but in general I keep bare 1st stages.

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

If you read the last sentence in my post (#10) you'll see that I agree.

Sorry, Stefan, I didn't mean to pick on you specifically, just abuse your post for my own means

I should write for the Daily Mail

19th March 2008, 06:17	#11 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,512	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? Does it come with a set of wire-cutters for an emergency? Dave . __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
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19th March 2008, 06:43	#12 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,777	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? If you want your dive comp to tell you that you've forgot to turn on the dil or O2 valve, you could also rig up the valves to a magnetic contact that is completed when the valve is opened and which is connected to the same wireless transmitter that gives you tank pressure. Then it's a simple on/off switch, not a numeric PSI/BAR number that has to be sensed and validated as "low" and which would add a step of computing power/time just to let you know that you forgot to open your valves. It could be the first thing which the computer validates, before tank pressure. Oh and one small detail(!)-make sure you can easily reach the valves, so that if you "get the message" that you jumped in with the valves off, you can open them in a split second... Last edited by silent running : 19th March 2008 at 06:48.
(Online)

19th March 2008, 06:45	#13 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? An option for people with rebreathers that come without a decent cowling, Dave. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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19th March 2008, 06:54	#14 (permalink)
Brainx3 Temporary Read only mode for site infractions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 274	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? Hi, That looks nice, but too many wires. I would still prefer the wireless way through my mask. Although I use VR3 and I have a 4th cell attached to my unit and the wiring looks much simplar than this octupus in the picture Best Regards. Wael
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19th March 2008, 07:41	#15 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	While it looks pretty wild in the case, I doubt the wires are an issue. Two wires from the HP links to the box, and a third one for the sensor. Run the wires along the gas hoses and I doubt you notice them much. Two wires coming out of the box, one for the VR3 and one for the HUD. Run the HUD's along the hose like everyone else's HUD wire, and the VR3's along the arm like any other cell-integrated computer or pO2 display. Wireless integration is nice if it works reliably and shows both O2 and tank pressure continuously, without having to scroll through menus. A Rebreather version of the data mask would be nice, maybe now that Hollis will produce the PRISM 2 they'll take it into consideration. The URM on the other hand is available now for those who want and can afford it. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
(Offline)

19th March 2008, 07:56	#16 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,189	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Before Closed Circuit Research's Ouroboros and Sentinel CCRs that technology was used in the Cis-Lunar MK-5p, not only for the O2 and dil inside the case, but with optional pressure transducer also the two tanks that can be mounted on the outside. And as was pointed out last week, all that info available on the CL hasn't stopped anyone from diving it with the O2 turned off, at least two accidents? Ignoring one alarm is just as easy as ignoring another. I've come very close to blacking out in the shallows because I was stupid enough to be trying to put my fins on with dil in the loop, the DSV in and the O2 off (0.13 was the highest reading on the display). It scared the shite out of me, more than anything else that's happened to me on a rebreather. Would an alarm have helped? I doubt it, I would probably have thought "will you shut the f* up, I'm only going to be a second...". Perhaps a breathalyser in the DSV as well to check for alcohol? Or a sensor in the pee valve to check for dehydration? __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f*ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
(Offline)

19th March 2008, 07:59	#17 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 621	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? I dive my rebreathers with button gauges on the dil and o2 first stages. If I run out of dil I can tell cos the adv doesnt work...switch on bailout cylinder which is plugged into loop or just come up a bit If I run out of o2 I will notice the po2 dropping....switch to offboard gas/go semi-closed or bailout. I have done it this way for about 4 years and my reasons, I dont like lots of clutter, I dont trust HP gauges around o2 and it removes some failure points. I ALWAYS do full pre dive checks and I ALWAYS recheck once I am in the water. sometimes adding more alarms and failsafes just makes things fail!! Dave
(Online)

19th March 2008, 08:12	#18 (permalink)
Brainx3 Temporary Read only mode for site infractions Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Borås, Sweden Posts: 274	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? Hi, Well, checking for dehydration, Alcohol Sensor, and what else you want? Are you talking about a rebreather unit or a rebreather cabin with tens of sensors now? or maybe a personal sub with a waitress? I think the idea of the Data Mask is actually fantastic in the PPO2 would be monitored within the mask then CCR diving rule #1 won't be an issue anymore as the user will be able to literally to know his/her PPO2 all the time (As every second). I actually think the idea would be excellent to add up additional wireless display instead of simple HUDs, so users can have exaact duplications of what the original handsets are showing OR just to copy the main features that divers need to know regarding decompression stops, tanks pressure, depth, PPO2, etc. But since that it's available yet in an integrated wireless package yet then I think Data Mask with the current HUDs is the closest to that. I appreciate the mask especially when diving in 2 degrees dark water with Remaining Air Time feature. Best Regards. Wael
(Offline)

19th March 2008, 08:51	#19 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) Ignoring one alarm is just as easy as ignoring another. If you read the last sentence in my post (#10) you'll see that I agree. Diving a KISS I believe that there is safety in simplicity, I have small diameter gauges I check before the dive, at the beginning of the dive and during the dive. The O2 gauge is routed alongside the KISS valve, so I usually look at it whenever I add gas. But Chris asked if it had been thought of before, and indeed it has. As I said, it's available for those who want and can afford it. Not for me at this point, but I can appreciate having the option. And for completeness' sake, the Poseidon/Cis-Lunar Mk-6 prototypes also have digital high pressure gauges, contents displayed on the handset, with low pressure (actually general 'consumables low') warning on the HUD. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
(Offline)

19th March 2008, 09:12	#20 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,189	Re: Would an integrated O2 tank pressure monitor be safer? Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) If I run out of dil I can tell cos the adv doesnt work...switch on bailout cylinder which is plugged into loop or just come up a bit... If I run out of o2 I will notice the po2 dropping....switch to offboard gas/go semi-closed or bailout. Exactly the way I dive though I don't even bother with the button gauges. I add a SPG to my dil when I'm cave diving but in general I keep bare 1st stages. Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) If you read the last sentence in my post (#10) you'll see that I agree. Sorry, Stefan, I didn't mean to pick on you specifically, just abuse your post for my own means I should write for the Daily Mail __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
(Offline)

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