HUD design idea, what do you think?

**Gill Envy** · 20th December 2007, 05:05

My wife and I were diving the other day and I wanted to know her po2. i could see her HUD from the side and calculated her po2 by the usual count of pulses myself without having to ask her, two green pulses, 1.2, but I had to be at just the right angle to see it directly or reflected in her mask. Then it occurred to me, what if the LED was visible from the front of the HUD as well, showing in both directions so one could view one's buddy's po2 easily when facing them? Of course different HUDs convey different information but it seems that just about any HUD could be designed to be easily read from a distance by one's buddy, allowing for the communication of the same information that is conveyed to the diver to be conveyed to others more readily. It does not seem like this would be difficult for a manufacturer to add. I thought I'd throw the idea out there and see if others would find it helpful. On the Shearwater HUD it seems like it would be as easy as adding three LED's to the opposite side of the HUD or have the existing three in the center of the stem with a lens showing to the front and the back. On the vision it seems that it would be as easy as splitting the optic cable to point in both directions.

In any case, periodically checking on one's buddy seems like a good practice and making it easier to do without breaking the flow of the dive and from a distance would be awesome. And in the case of an emergency, being able to quickly verify what the electronics are reading may help speed up a viable rescue response.

Does anyone else think that would be helpful?
george

depth · 20th December 2007, 05:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

My wife and I were diving the other day and I wanted to know her po2. i could see her HUD from the side and calculated her po2 by the usual count of pulses myself without having to ask her, two green pulses, 1.2, but I had to be at just the right angle to see it directly or reflected in her mask. Then it occurred to me, what if the LED was visible from the front of the HUD as well, showing in both directions so one could view one's buddy's po2 easily when facing them? Of course different HUDs convey different information but it seems that just about any HUD could be designed to be easily read from a distance by one's buddy, allowing for the communication of the same information that is conveyed to the diver to be conveyed to others more readily. It does not seem like this would be difficult for a manufacturer to add. I thought I'd throw the idea out there and see if others would find it helpful. On the Shearwater HUD it seems like it would be as easy as adding three LED's to the opposite side of the HUD or have the existing three in the center of the stem with a lens showing to the front and the back. On the vision it seems that it would be as easy as splitting the optic cable to point in both directions.

In any case, periodically checking on one's buddy seems like a good practice and making it easier to do without breaking the flow of the dive and from a distance would be awesome. And in the case of an emergency, being able to quickly verify what the electronics are reading may help speed up a viable rescue response.

Does anyone else think that would be helpful?
george

Hi George

This feature is avaliable on the Meg HUD.

/Christian

**dz3866** · 20th December 2007, 05:16

I think thats a great idea, something to think about.

decoweenie · 20th December 2007, 05:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by depth)

This feature is avaliable on the Meg HUD.

On the Shearwater HUD, simply rotate the LED 90 degree so they point upward and you have the same.

When facing the diver, you could also see the reflection of the LED blinking off the mask.

I haven't had the need to double-check my buddy's PO2 unless in a dive course, then I just check from the handset or see from the reflection.

PaulTG2 · 20th December 2007, 14:49

Hello,

I have decided to move my secondary handset to the side/back of the unit in order to give my buddy full access to it. This way my buddy will be able to check all the cells and see how things are going (she's trained on the Meg). I plan to still have the ability to grab it as needed, but it won't be in my normal scan.

Why won't it be in my normal scan? I have my primary handset, the ability to read the second computer via the HUD, and have the Meg fourth cell reading on my VR3 mounted on one of Ron's Meg/VR3 plates. I don't see the need for the secondary handset during the dive, although I will have the ability to grab it.

What do people think of this set-up?

-p

Scubascooby · 20th December 2007, 15:38

I suggested to Bruce that the Shearwater HUD controller could have 3 mimic LEDs, nice big bright ones. This would make it easier to calibrate in bright daylight and allow the box to be positioned where your buddy can see it.

**Gill Envy** · 20th December 2007, 17:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by depth)

Hi George

This feature is avaliable on the Meg HUD.

/Christian

thanks Christian, i'll take a closer look the next time I get a chance.

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

On the Shearwater HUD, simply rotate the LED 90 degree so they point upward and you have the same.

When facing the diver, you could also see the reflection of the LED blinking off the mask.

I haven't had the need to double-check my buddy's PO2 unless in a dive course, then I just check from the handset or see from the reflection.

hmm, thanks for that, we'll give that a try on the next dive. I've had trouble reading the HUD when it's not positioned right so I'm very curious to see if this will work for me.

As for not needing to check one's buddy's po2, maybe it's because my budyy is so commonly my wife that I feel compelled but on the other hand it seems to me that CCR diving is more of a buddy sport than OC and occasionally checking in with one's buddy on po2 is on par with being aware of one's buddy's remaining air supply on OC...I was just thinking that the convenience of a led is that you can read it from a much further distance and with more convenience than a LCD screen.

decoweenie · 20th December 2007, 18:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

As for not needing to check one's buddy's po2, maybe it's because my budyy is so commonly my wife that I feel compelled but on the other hand it seems to me that CCR diving is more of a buddy sport than OC and occasionally checking in with one's buddy on po2 is on par with being aware of one's buddy's remaining air supply on OC...

There is the difference. You do recreational dives with people whom you have to take care of, and I would never do technical dives with one that I have to double check on a regular basis. And the only recreational dives I do are when I teach.

There is nothing wrong with either way, just what you want to chose.

**Gill Envy** · 21st December 2007, 06:32

I don't feel like I have to take care of anyone, I've been taught throughout my training to stay connected with my buddy...we buddy check before going down, bubble check each other at the beginning of each dive, share info about remaining gas and po2 on occasion. I admit, I care about my wife more than I would just any dive buddy. I may never have considered tracking my buddy's po2 if my wife didn't dive, but now that I have I thought I'd pass along the observation to see if anyone else feels like it's a good thing maybe warranting such an option as a two way HUD. It sounds like you are of the camp that thinks occasionally checking in on one's buddy's po2 is baby sitting, but from what I can tell hyper/hypo po2 is the biggest killer and can easily happen to anyone at any depth or level of experience. As for recreational vs TEC, hmm, I'm not sure where to draw that line anymore and i'm sure you've got me beat but I'm not sure if I'd feel any different if we were going below 150 FSW.

the real bottom line is that if my wife's set point controller hadn't crapped out, then only months after factory repair started working intermittently

, then completely crapping out, we'd probably still be blissful eCCR's divers and I'd be a lot less obsessed with po2 and manual rebreathers and cross checking. maybe i'll loosen up over time or maybe these early formative experiences will help me stay motivated to be a safer diver as we venture deeper.

In any case, it's good to hear the full range of opinions, so thanks.

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

There is the difference. You do recreational dives with people whom you have to take care of, and I would never do technical dives with one that I have to double check on a regular basis. And the only recreational dives I do are when I teach.

There is nothing wrong with either way, just what you want to chose.

decoweenie · 21st December 2007, 07:39

George,

I hope I don't come across as some gungho teckie diver - which I am not - but I don't believe you will appreciate what I have written until you have experienced doing some technical diving that are more challenging than what you are diving now.

In short, the divers are fully awared of each other's diving equipment and configuration but do not double-checking each other's SPG or PO2 display during the dive. If the situation warrants asking (i.e. turning pressure on overhead dive, erratic behavior, etc), then it is done but not hand-holding like recreational PADI divers.

As said, it is good to be able to have access to the information (i.e. PO2) of the buddy for my diving, but not an absolute necessary as in your case with your wife.

I am not arguing with you, just want to expose another side of diving...

20th December 2007, 05:05	#1 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,315	HUD design idea, what do you think? My wife and I were diving the other day and I wanted to know her po2. i could see her HUD from the side and calculated her po2 by the usual count of pulses myself without having to ask her, two green pulses, 1.2, but I had to be at just the right angle to see it directly or reflected in her mask. Then it occurred to me, what if the LED was visible from the front of the HUD as well, showing in both directions so one could view one's buddy's po2 easily when facing them? Of course different HUDs convey different information but it seems that just about any HUD could be designed to be easily read from a distance by one's buddy, allowing for the communication of the same information that is conveyed to the diver to be conveyed to others more readily. It does not seem like this would be difficult for a manufacturer to add. I thought I'd throw the idea out there and see if others would find it helpful. On the Shearwater HUD it seems like it would be as easy as adding three LED's to the opposite side of the HUD or have the existing three in the center of the stem with a lens showing to the front and the back. On the vision it seems that it would be as easy as splitting the optic cable to point in both directions. In any case, periodically checking on one's buddy seems like a good practice and making it easier to do without breaking the flow of the dive and from a distance would be awesome. And in the case of an emergency, being able to quickly verify what the electronics are reading may help speed up a viable rescue response. Does anyone else think that would be helpful? george __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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20th December 2007, 05:15	#2 (permalink)
depth Christian Rasmussen Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 195	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) My wife and I were diving the other day and I wanted to know her po2. i could see her HUD from the side and calculated her po2 by the usual count of pulses myself without having to ask her, two green pulses, 1.2, but I had to be at just the right angle to see it directly or reflected in her mask. Then it occurred to me, what if the LED was visible from the front of the HUD as well, showing in both directions so one could view one's buddy's po2 easily when facing them? Of course different HUDs convey different information but it seems that just about any HUD could be designed to be easily read from a distance by one's buddy, allowing for the communication of the same information that is conveyed to the diver to be conveyed to others more readily. It does not seem like this would be difficult for a manufacturer to add. I thought I'd throw the idea out there and see if others would find it helpful. On the Shearwater HUD it seems like it would be as easy as adding three LED's to the opposite side of the HUD or have the existing three in the center of the stem with a lens showing to the front and the back. On the vision it seems that it would be as easy as splitting the optic cable to point in both directions. In any case, periodically checking on one's buddy seems like a good practice and making it easier to do without breaking the flow of the dive and from a distance would be awesome. And in the case of an emergency, being able to quickly verify what the electronics are reading may help speed up a viable rescue response. Does anyone else think that would be helpful? george Hi George This feature is avaliable on the Meg HUD. /Christian __________________ I am not qualified to make my own meg batteries!!! I am not qualified to make my own meg batteries!!! I am not qualified to make my own meg batteries!!! I am not qualified to make my own meg batteries!!! I am not.............
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20th December 2007, 05:16	#3 (permalink)
dz3866 zboy Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2005 Location: US California Posts: 147	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? I think thats a great idea, something to think about.
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20th December 2007, 05:22	#4 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? Quote: (Originally Posted by depth) This feature is avaliable on the Meg HUD. On the Shearwater HUD, simply rotate the LED 90 degree so they point upward and you have the same. When facing the diver, you could also see the reflection of the LED blinking off the mask. I haven't had the need to double-check my buddy's PO2 unless in a dive course, then I just check from the handset or see from the reflection.
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20th December 2007, 14:49	#5 (permalink)
PaulTG2 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 425	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? Hello, I have decided to move my secondary handset to the side/back of the unit in order to give my buddy full access to it. This way my buddy will be able to check all the cells and see how things are going (she's trained on the Meg). I plan to still have the ability to grab it as needed, but it won't be in my normal scan. Why won't it be in my normal scan? I have my primary handset, the ability to read the second computer via the HUD, and have the Meg fourth cell reading on my VR3 mounted on one of Ron's Meg/VR3 plates. I don't see the need for the secondary handset during the dive, although I will have the ability to grab it. What do people think of this set-up? -p
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20th December 2007, 15:38	#6 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 388	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? I suggested to Bruce that the Shearwater HUD controller could have 3 mimic LEDs, nice big bright ones. This would make it easier to calibrate in bright daylight and allow the box to be positioned where your buddy can see it. __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive" Better off OUT of the EU ! www.hugsac.org.uk
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20th December 2007, 17:08	#7 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,315	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? Quote: (Originally Posted by depth) Hi George This feature is avaliable on the Meg HUD. /Christian thanks Christian, i'll take a closer look the next time I get a chance. Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) On the Shearwater HUD, simply rotate the LED 90 degree so they point upward and you have the same. When facing the diver, you could also see the reflection of the LED blinking off the mask. I haven't had the need to double-check my buddy's PO2 unless in a dive course, then I just check from the handset or see from the reflection. hmm, thanks for that, we'll give that a try on the next dive. I've had trouble reading the HUD when it's not positioned right so I'm very curious to see if this will work for me. As for not needing to check one's buddy's po2, maybe it's because my budyy is so commonly my wife that I feel compelled but on the other hand it seems to me that CCR diving is more of a buddy sport than OC and occasionally checking in with one's buddy on po2 is on par with being aware of one's buddy's remaining air supply on OC...I was just thinking that the convenience of a led is that you can read it from a much further distance and with more convenience than a LCD screen. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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20th December 2007, 18:41	#8 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) As for not needing to check one's buddy's po2, maybe it's because my budyy is so commonly my wife that I feel compelled but on the other hand it seems to me that CCR diving is more of a buddy sport than OC and occasionally checking in with one's buddy on po2 is on par with being aware of one's buddy's remaining air supply on OC... There is the difference. You do recreational dives with people whom you have to take care of, and I would never do technical dives with one that I have to double check on a regular basis. And the only recreational dives I do are when I teach. There is nothing wrong with either way, just what you want to chose.
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21st December 2007, 06:32	#9 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,315	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? I don't feel like I have to take care of anyone, I've been taught throughout my training to stay connected with my buddy...we buddy check before going down, bubble check each other at the beginning of each dive, share info about remaining gas and po2 on occasion. I admit, I care about my wife more than I would just any dive buddy. I may never have considered tracking my buddy's po2 if my wife didn't dive, but now that I have I thought I'd pass along the observation to see if anyone else feels like it's a good thing maybe warranting such an option as a two way HUD. It sounds like you are of the camp that thinks occasionally checking in on one's buddy's po2 is baby sitting, but from what I can tell hyper/hypo po2 is the biggest killer and can easily happen to anyone at any depth or level of experience. As for recreational vs TEC, hmm, I'm not sure where to draw that line anymore and i'm sure you've got me beat but I'm not sure if I'd feel any different if we were going below 150 FSW. the real bottom line is that if my wife's set point controller hadn't crapped out, then only months after factory repair started working intermittently , then completely crapping out, we'd probably still be blissful eCCR's divers and I'd be a lot less obsessed with po2 and manual rebreathers and cross checking. maybe i'll loosen up over time or maybe these early formative experiences will help me stay motivated to be a safer diver as we venture deeper. In any case, it's good to hear the full range of opinions, so thanks. Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) There is the difference. You do recreational dives with people whom you have to take care of, and I would never do technical dives with one that I have to double check on a regular basis. And the only recreational dives I do are when I teach. There is nothing wrong with either way, just what you want to chose. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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21st December 2007, 07:39	#10 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: HUD design idea, what do you think? George, I hope I don't come across as some gungho teckie diver - which I am not - but I don't believe you will appreciate what I have written until you have experienced doing some technical diving that are more challenging than what you are diving now. In short, the divers are fully awared of each other's diving equipment and configuration but do not double-checking each other's SPG or PO2 display during the dive. If the situation warrants asking (i.e. turning pressure on overhead dive, erratic behavior, etc), then it is done but not hand-holding like recreational PADI divers. As said, it is good to be able to have access to the information (i.e. PO2) of the buddy for my diving, but not an absolute necessary as in your case with your wife. I am not arguing with you, just want to expose another side of diving...
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