Rebreather Comparison Chart

Scubascooby · 15th October 2007, 13:51

Why is the Evolution WOB better than the Inspi ? Is it just down to the scrubber size or are there other differences ?

Mightily impressed with the CK.

Personally I dislike the CE pass/fail philosophy. The testing should be such that it does not favour one unit and the results should be published for the buyer to decide unless the unit drops below an acceptable level. Sort of like vehicle type approval. This is a young industry and designers need to be encouraged to innovate and improve.

***diverklondike*** · 15th October 2007, 14:41

**** given that there is no description of how the data was measured on the poster with the data presented then that data is meaningless and just manufacturer hype.
rachel
******

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

It was explained to me - that if the CO2 rate was lowered than the other scrubbers would do proportionally better too. So again the cartridge would be last? Is this wrong (I understand the basic theory behind it all but dont profess to be an epxert or have played with test equipment)?

I think what Kevin has done here is a good start but exactly how balanced this is remains to be seen until all of the details on the testing have been shown. (Obviously hard to do based on what information we have been given to this point.) For example we see Paul's comment on the rEvo numbers as they apply to the ammount of scrubber that's used and Alex's on what assumptions the Optima was designed for etc... I am also not personally convinced that this information scales in a linear fashion when you change things like C02 flow, temperature depth etc... With that I think it's premature to say that this one set of graphs makes this CCR better than another... Once we fully understand the "how and why's" around the testing this may change but personally I am not there yet....

Thanks

Mark

***caveseeker7*** · 15th October 2007, 15:07

There was a big disclaimer on the top of the chart that data was collected from manufacturers websites and independent testing. Any manufacturer finding inaccurate data should both check their websites and contact C2R.

It also said corrected will be accepted from corroborated independent sources (as Alex or Rebreather World would be).

Anyway, had Rebreather World done the testing some yhoos would have jumped all over it claiming we give preferred treatment to sponsors or some nonsense like it. Someone will always be complaining (not talking about Paul here, he should definitely contact C2R about the discrepancies he found).

***diverklondike*** · 15th October 2007, 15:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

There was a big disclaimer on the top of the chart that data was collected from manufacturers websites and independent testing. Any manufacturer finding inaccurate data should both check their websites and contact C2R.

It also said corrected will be accepted from corroborated independent sources (as Alex or Rebreather World would be).

Anyway, had Rebreather World done the testing some yhoos would have jumped all over it claiming we give preferred treatment to sponsors or some nonsense like it. Someone will always be complaining (not talking about Paul here, he should definitely contact C2R about the discrepancies he found).

Stefan,

Thanks for the additional details here... I for one then think it would be great if Kevin would share the specific sources for each... This website or this indep. testing etc... This would go a long way to put things into context.

Mark

***caveseeker7*** · 15th October 2007, 15:26

Already mailed to C2R asking for the chart, Stuart probably did the same.
We'll post it when we get them, or I'll try getting the pics online asap.

**Lake_Tahoe_Diver** · 15th October 2007, 18:46

I wonder why he left off the data for the Prism's scrubber?

decoweenie · 15th October 2007, 19:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lake_Tahoe_Diver)

I wonder why he left off the data for the Prism's scrubber?

Probably can't find any available unit to test.

***caveseeker7*** · 15th October 2007, 19:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lake_Tahoe_Diver)

I wonder why he left off the data for the Prism's scrubber?

Phi's guess is as good as any, there are only three PRISMs in the UK afaIk ...
those would be the only ones in Europe I gather.

I do remember the term "volume production model" coming from one of the people,
which pretty much would eliminate the PRISM, too.

Anyway, already PMed Alex that the unit should be included as technically it is in production,
has been for a long time, and has the rare radial scrubber.

Am also curious just how well the unit stands up to CE protocol.
Same is true for the WOB, would have loved to know how it compared to the rest of the lot.
Pete always boasts about both, I know the perceived WOB is very good,
but I want comparable numbers.

Andy Pitkin here on the board is in the UK and may have played along.

Maybe he will when Alex tests.

bendomatic · 15th October 2007, 21:08

i guess my BS meter peaked because we have a saying in my line of research: if you don't have much in the way of good data make a pretty picture to present.... i don't have the benefit here in aus to hear KG or his representatives verbally explain.... all i see is lots of little graphs with no real description whatsoever. and no i don't think the disclaimer of independent testing etc is a description! could be the Uzbekistan Peoples Front for all i can see, i can't see that it was to some particular EN standard....there is an underlying assumption of knowledge that if i don't already have, makes it very difficult to view what's been presented as objective. hence it comes across as marketing.

so as it stands, on its own, the poster doesn't mean much to me.

rachel

apitkin · 15th October 2007, 21:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Andy Pitkin here on the board is in the UK and may have played along.

Maybe he will when Alex tests.

I'd love to help, but I've moved to North Florida, and brought my Prism with me. So that's down to 2 in the UK.

Crap weather, postal strikes, crap weather, petrol prices, property prices, crap weather. Did I mention the crap weather?

Andy

15th October 2007, 13:51	#31 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 329	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart Why is the Evolution WOB better than the Inspi ? Is it just down to the scrubber size or are there other differences ? Mightily impressed with the CK. Personally I dislike the CE pass/fail philosophy. The testing should be such that it does not favour one unit and the results should be published for the buyer to decide unless the unit drops below an acceptable level. Sort of like vehicle type approval. This is a young industry and designers need to be encouraged to innovate and improve. __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive"
(Online)

15th October 2007, 14:41	#32 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,461	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart ** given that there is no description of how the data was measured on the poster with the data presented then that data is meaningless and just manufacturer hype. rachel ** Quote: (Originally Posted by schford*) It was explained to me - that if the CO2 rate was lowered than the other scrubbers would do proportionally better too. So again the cartridge would be last? Is this wrong (I understand the basic theory behind it all but dont profess to be an epxert or have played with test equipment)? I think what Kevin has done here is a good start but exactly how balanced this is remains to be seen until all of the details on the testing have been shown. (Obviously hard to do based on what information we have been given to this point.) For example we see Paul's comment on the rEvo numbers as they apply to the ammount of scrubber that's used and Alex's on what assumptions the Optima was designed for etc... I am also not personally convinced that this information scales in a linear fashion when you change things like C02 flow, temperature depth etc... With that I think it's premature to say that this one set of graphs makes this CCR better than another... Once we fully understand the "how and why's" around the testing this may change but personally I am not there yet.... Thanks Mark Last edited by schford : 16th October 2007 at 16:47.*
(Offline)

15th October 2007, 15:07	#33 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart There was a big disclaimer on the top of the chart that data was collected from manufacturers websites and independent testing. Any manufacturer finding inaccurate data should both check their websites and contact C2R. It also said corrected will be accepted from corroborated independent sources (as Alex or Rebreather World would be). Anyway, had Rebreather World done the testing some yhoos would have jumped all over it claiming we give preferred treatment to sponsors or some nonsense like it. Someone will always be complaining (not talking about Paul here, he should definitely contact C2R about the discrepancies he found). __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
(Offline)

15th October 2007, 15:22	#34 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,461	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) There was a big disclaimer on the top of the chart that data was collected from manufacturers websites and independent testing. Any manufacturer finding inaccurate data should both check their websites and contact C2R. It also said corrected will be accepted from corroborated independent sources (as Alex or Rebreather World would be). Anyway, had Rebreather World done the testing some yhoos would have jumped all over it claiming we give preferred treatment to sponsors or some nonsense like it. Someone will always be complaining (not talking about Paul here, he should definitely contact C2R about the discrepancies he found). Stefan, Thanks for the additional details here... I for one then think it would be great if Kevin would share the specific sources for each... This website or this indep. testing etc... This would go a long way to put things into context. Mark
(Offline)

15th October 2007, 15:26	#35 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart Already mailed to C2R asking for the chart, Stuart probably did the same. We'll post it when we get them, or I'll try getting the pics online asap. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
(Offline)

15th October 2007, 18:46	#36 (permalink)
Lake_Tahoe_Diver Enjoying the silence Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Reno, Nv. (Lake Tahoe) Posts: 185	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart I wonder why he left off the data for the Prism's scrubber? __________________ Scuba Diving,the only sport where it is good to be in over your head....
(Offline)

15th October 2007, 19:35	#37 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart Quote: (Originally Posted by Lake_Tahoe_Diver) I wonder why he left off the data for the Prism's scrubber? Probably can't find any available unit to test.
(Offline)

15th October 2007, 19:47	#38 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart Quote: (Originally Posted by Lake_Tahoe_Diver) I wonder why he left off the data for the Prism's scrubber? Phi's guess is as good as any, there are only three PRISMs in the UK afaIk ... those would be the only ones in Europe I gather. I do remember the term "volume production model" coming from one of the people, which pretty much would eliminate the PRISM, too. Anyway, already PMed Alex that the unit should be included as technically it is in production, has been for a long time, and has the rare radial scrubber. Am also curious just how well the unit stands up to CE protocol. Same is true for the WOB, would have loved to know how it compared to the rest of the lot. Pete always boasts about both, I know the perceived WOB is very good, but I want comparable numbers. Andy Pitkin here on the board is in the UK and may have played along. Maybe he will when Alex tests. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
(Offline)

15th October 2007, 21:08	#39 (permalink)
bendomatic it's a girl due 20th May Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Brisbane Australia Posts: 198	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart i guess my BS meter peaked because we have a saying in my line of research: if you don't have much in the way of good data make a pretty picture to present.... i don't have the benefit here in aus to hear KG or his representatives verbally explain.... all i see is lots of little graphs with no real description whatsoever. and no i don't think the disclaimer of independent testing etc is a description! could be the Uzbekistan Peoples Front for all i can see, i can't see that it was to some particular EN standard....there is an underlying assumption of knowledge that if i don't already have, makes it very difficult to view what's been presented as objective. hence it comes across as marketing. so as it stands, on its own, the poster doesn't mean much to me. rachel __________________ why deal with idiots on the net when you have to spend all day dealing with them at work. Last edited by bendomatic : 15th October 2007 at 22:22.
(Offline)

15th October 2007, 21:53	#40 (permalink)
apitkin New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land Posts: 97	Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Andy Pitkin here on the board is in the UK and may have played along. Maybe he will when Alex tests. I'd love to help, but I've moved to North Florida, and brought my Prism with me. So that's down to 2 in the UK. Crap weather, postal strikes, crap weather, petrol prices, property prices, crap weather. Did I mention the crap weather? Andy
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode