Suitability of varying rebreathers for cave diving

jdz · 3rd August 2005, 06:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Does the rig rest on the 2 inverted tank valves when you sit down ?

Yes, though the backplate actually extends down past the bottom of the valve heads, say 30degrees from vertical leaning away from the plate when sitting down on a flat surface..

The valves have a round rubber "butt" on the top of their head so that the tanks can rest on them.. if that makes sense!

Unless stefan beats me to it, I'll see if I can dig up a photo..

Cheers, JDZ

decoweenie · 3rd August 2005, 06:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by jdz)

The valves have a round rubber "butt" on the top of their head so that the tanks can rest on them.. if that makes sense!

Yes, it does. Thanks...

I am sure it is fine, but I have been "slammed" hard on my behind many times on a rocking boat to like the idea that the weight of my rig is actually resting on the top of my 2 tank valves.

Could the unit stand up stable by itself in such manner ?

Is the cowling an optional item ?

Just looking at the picture, the rig just looks "incomplete" to me for some reason...

jdz · 3rd August 2005, 07:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Yes, it does. Thanks...

I am sure it is fine, but I have been "slammed" hard on my behind many times on a rocking boat to like the idea that the weight of my rig is actually resting on the top of my 2 tank valves.

Could the unit stand up stable by itself in such manner ? stand up yes, but not stable..

Is the cowling an optional item ? yes..

Just looking at the picture, the rig just looks "incomplete" to me for some reason...

it must be the open design of the unit, but it is as it comes, without the harness of course..

cheers, JDZ

Chris · 3rd August 2005, 11:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Does the rig rest on the 2 inverted tank valves when you sit down ?

Here is a pic it is actually pretty stable when sitting down. Mine sits like this all week waiting for me to take it diving.

The Cowlings will be here

next week I will post another photo once it is on.

Cheers
Chris

***caveseeker7*** · 3rd August 2005, 15:42

Phi, the PRISM was originally designed to be used without the cowling.
All hoses are routed between the backplate, tanks and cannister.
The incomplete look may be the transparent scrubber bucket, allowing
you to see something that's usually invisible.

The NAVY asked for a cowling to cover the light sorb and shiny regs.
Pete made it available to all customers, but it's still optional.
Personally I think it should be standard, if someone wants or needs
to dive with larger tanks it can be done, but the protection provided
by the cowling is too important to keep it optional.

Here is a side-by-side shot with and without the cowling.
That's one of the original NAVY test rigs on the left with the number on
the lower end of the mounting plate. As you can see, the cowling covers
that entire area, it fits over the "bumper balls".

jdz · 3rd August 2005, 21:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris)

Here is a pic it is actually pretty stable when sitting down. Mine sits like this all week waiting for me to take it diving.

The Cowlings will be here

next week I will post another photo once it is on.

Cheers
Chris

Hi Chris,
One of the more irritating things was the way the bumper balls kept banging the base of the supplied wing every time I put the unit down!!
Has anyone punctured the wing yet??
Cheers, JDZ

Chris · 3rd August 2005, 22:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by jdz)

Hi Chris,
One of the more irritating things was the way the bumper balls kept banging the base of the supplied wing every time I put the unit down!!
Has anyone punctured the wing yet??
Cheers, JDZ

Hi JDZ
Guys sorry for hijacking the thread,
I would assume over time there is going to be some wear on the wing. I have been talking to a PRISM diver in the states who reckons he is starting to see some on his unit, (not sure of its age) You would not want to try it without the (rubber bumper balls)

When I took off the Gimp Harness the wing went as well, I find the 44lbs Zeagle is ideal on the PRISM, as you can see from the above image it fits like a glove no chance of wear from underneath the unit as way be the case with a doughnut wing.

Did I show you these images ?
http://www.uwphotog.com/galleries/pr...d/harness.html

Cheers
Chris

Richard Harris · 4th August 2005, 00:15

Hey JDZ what an exceptionally clever idea to wear OC sidemounts with a CCR clipped to your back like a removable turtle shell! Take it off then tootle up the last few hundred metres of passage. As you say, you will need some more OC gas staged for bailout but very tricky indeed.

My KISS stands with the Recwing pinched a bit at the back plate, so far no sign of damage to the wing.

Still keen to hear more good and bad about the HH for the KISS...jury still seems about 50:50. Has anyone made a protective cage over the top of the KISS Hammerhead I can see a pic of?

decoweenie · 4th August 2005, 03:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by Richard Harris)

Still keen to hear more good and bad about the HH for the KISS...jury still seems about 50:50.

Harrie,

Like all evaluations, pay more attention to the feed-backs of the particular group who does more your type of diving.

If you do more serious decompression type diving, weigh the feed-backs from those who do the same more than those who do more bimbly shallow dives.

This will ensure that you get the best feed-backs from the same type of application how you will be using the unit.

It is your money, it is your choice.

If you are trying to rationalize the reason to spend $$$ on a new toy, just skip the questions and call Kevin...

mattmexico · 6th September 2005, 01:09

Yo there

I had the pleasure to dive a Cis Lunar single and dual unit, a Meg, an Inspiration and an Optima in the caves of Florida and Mexico throughout the last coupla years. I have to say I would take any one of them, and actually take some of them into the cave any time. Sure enough every unit has a couple of issues but most of them are easy to deal with. Good training and continuous practice of emergency drills are a large part of preparation in my opinion. I could list a number of problems that have happened to me but I will spare you with it. What I learned out of them is that preparation is key either in practice or unit, bail out is paramount either CC or OC and the will to survive is what gets you back onto the dry.

What I really like on CCR cave diving is the fact that I do not have the diminishing gas supply that forces me to turn, yes I do have gas I use, yes I do have a scrubber that I use but as long as I stay within my bailout range I can stay as long as I want, watching scrubber and deco limiting factors.

What I hate the most, and I have no real remedy against is the fact that if I have to go to bail out I am forced back onto OC and that ticking, bubbling issue of diminishing gas supply ... and blown or prolonged deco schedule ... if there is one. I still don't have the perfect bail out CCR but hate the most going back onto OC.

Matt
www.protecdiving.com

3rd August 2005, 06:22	#31 (permalink)
jdz Prism Cave Diver Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 212	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Does the rig rest on the 2 inverted tank valves when you sit down ? Yes, though the backplate actually extends down past the bottom of the valve heads, say 30degrees from vertical leaning away from the plate when sitting down on a flat surface.. The valves have a round rubber "butt" on the top of their head so that the tanks can rest on them.. if that makes sense! Unless stefan beats me to it, I'll see if I can dig up a photo.. Cheers, JDZ
(Offline)

3rd August 2005, 06:54	#32 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by jdz) The valves have a round rubber "butt" on the top of their head so that the tanks can rest on them.. if that makes sense! Yes, it does. Thanks... I am sure it is fine, but I have been "slammed" hard on my behind many times on a rocking boat to like the idea that the weight of my rig is actually resting on the top of my 2 tank valves. Could the unit stand up stable by itself in such manner ? Is the cowling an optional item ? Just looking at the picture, the rig just looks "incomplete" to me for some reason...
(Offline)

3rd August 2005, 07:08	#33 (permalink)
jdz Prism Cave Diver Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 212	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Yes, it does. Thanks... I am sure it is fine, but I have been "slammed" hard on my behind many times on a rocking boat to like the idea that the weight of my rig is actually resting on the top of my 2 tank valves. Could the unit stand up stable by itself in such manner ? stand up yes, but not stable.. Is the cowling an optional item ? yes.. Just looking at the picture, the rig just looks "incomplete" to me for some reason... it must be the open design of the unit, but it is as it comes, without the harness of course.. cheers, JDZ
(Offline)

3rd August 2005, 15:42	#35 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Phi, the PRISM was originally designed to be used without the cowling. All hoses are routed between the backplate, tanks and cannister. The incomplete look may be the transparent scrubber bucket, allowing you to see something that's usually invisible. The NAVY asked for a cowling to cover the light sorb and shiny regs. Pete made it available to all customers, but it's still optional. Personally I think it should be standard, if someone wants or needs to dive with larger tanks it can be done, but the protection provided by the cowling is too important to keep it optional. Here is a side-by-side shot with and without the cowling. That's one of the original NAVY test rigs on the left with the number on the lower end of the mounting plate. As you can see, the cowling covers that entire area, it fits over the "bumper balls". __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
(Offline)

3rd August 2005, 21:33	#36 (permalink)
jdz Prism Cave Diver Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 212	Quote: (Originally Posted by Chris) Here is a pic it is actually pretty stable when sitting down. Mine sits like this all week waiting for me to take it diving. The Cowlings will be here next week I will post another photo once it is on. Cheers Chris Hi Chris, One of the more irritating things was the way the bumper balls kept banging the base of the supplied wing every time I put the unit down!! Has anyone punctured the wing yet?? Cheers, JDZ
(Offline)

3rd August 2005, 22:54	#37 (permalink)
Chris Go Nude Or Go Home Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 601	Quote: (Originally Posted by jdz) Hi Chris, One of the more irritating things was the way the bumper balls kept banging the base of the supplied wing every time I put the unit down!! Has anyone punctured the wing yet?? Cheers, JDZ Hi JDZ Guys sorry for hijacking the thread, I would assume over time there is going to be some wear on the wing. I have been talking to a PRISM diver in the states who reckons he is starting to see some on his unit, (not sure of its age) You would not want to try it without the (rubber bumper balls) When I took off the Gimp Harness the wing went as well, I find the 44lbs Zeagle is ideal on the PRISM, as you can see from the above image it fits like a glove no chance of wear from underneath the unit as way be the case with a doughnut wing. Did I show you these images ? http://www.uwphotog.com/galleries/pr...d/harness.html Cheers Chris __________________ Megalodon Sorb and Sensors whilst in Australia www.divetub.com.au Diving & Photography @ www.uwphotog.com
(Offline)

4th August 2005, 00:15	#38 (permalink)
Richard Harris Dr Harry Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 118	Hey JDZ what an exceptionally clever idea to wear OC sidemounts with a CCR clipped to your back like a removable turtle shell! Take it off then tootle up the last few hundred metres of passage. As you say, you will need some more OC gas staged for bailout but very tricky indeed. My KISS stands with the Recwing pinched a bit at the back plate, so far no sign of damage to the wing. Still keen to hear more good and bad about the HH for the KISS...jury still seems about 50:50. Has anyone made a protective cage over the top of the KISS Hammerhead I can see a pic of? __________________ "Harry" www.divedoc.net
(Offline)

4th August 2005, 03:52	#39 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by Richard Harris) Still keen to hear more good and bad about the HH for the KISS...jury still seems about 50:50. Harrie, Like all evaluations, pay more attention to the feed-backs of the particular group who does more your type of diving. If you do more serious decompression type diving, weigh the feed-backs from those who do the same more than those who do more bimbly shallow dives. This will ensure that you get the best feed-backs from the same type of application how you will be using the unit. It is your money, it is your choice. If you are trying to rationalize the reason to spend $$$ on a new toy, just skip the questions and call Kevin...
(Offline)

6th September 2005, 01:09	#40 (permalink)
mattmexico Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Optima RB80 / Clone Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Prism Topaz Sport Kiss RB80 / Clone Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Mexico, Q.Roo, Playa del Carmen Posts: 752	CCR in the cave Yo there I had the pleasure to dive a Cis Lunar single and dual unit, a Meg, an Inspiration and an Optima in the caves of Florida and Mexico throughout the last coupla years. I have to say I would take any one of them, and actually take some of them into the cave any time. Sure enough every unit has a couple of issues but most of them are easy to deal with. Good training and continuous practice of emergency drills are a large part of preparation in my opinion. I could list a number of problems that have happened to me but I will spare you with it. What I learned out of them is that preparation is key either in practice or unit, bail out is paramount either CC or OC and the will to survive is what gets you back onto the dry. What I really like on CCR cave diving is the fact that I do not have the diminishing gas supply that forces me to turn, yes I do have gas I use, yes I do have a scrubber that I use but as long as I stay within my bailout range I can stay as long as I want, watching scrubber and deco limiting factors. What I hate the most, and I have no real remedy against is the fact that if I have to go to bail out I am forced back onto OC and that ticking, bubbling issue of diminishing gas supply ... and blown or prolonged deco schedule ... if there is one. I still don't have the perfect bail out CCR but hate the most going back onto OC. Matt www.protecdiving.com
(Offline)

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