Bailout Strategies

**wedivebc** · 8th April 2006, 20:24

I have been wondering how you guys plan for your bailout gas in caves, On OC it's pretty easy since you know how much you breathed going in. I am assuming most of you seldom dive OC so how do you determine sufficient gas to exit? Do you use RMV from OC diving? I am guessing you will share bailout amongst team members and prbably stages most of it. I won't be taking my Rebreather cave training until January so in the mean time I just dream about what it will be like.

***EBT*** · 8th April 2006, 20:52

Choices vary between;

- SCR bailout (personally I dont rely on this)
- OC Bailout (each diver carries a full bailout themselves)
- Team bailout (each diver carries a bottom stage and the team carries/stages other gas)

If you read the IANTD standards docs (online) you'll see some of the strategies detailled enough to figure out.

The important things are;

1. Dont assume your bailout will be at normal RMV
2. Actually test it for real once in a while.

/Z

sensor330 · 9th April 2006, 00:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc)

I have been wondering how you guys plan for your bailout gas in caves, On OC it's pretty easy since you know how much you breathed going in. I am assuming most of you seldom dive OC so how do you determine sufficient gas to exit? Do you use RMV from OC diving? I am guessing you will share bailout amongst team members and prbably stages most of it. I won't be taking my Rebreather cave training until January so in the mean time I just dream about what it will be like.

1.5 times the amount to get 1 diver out from the farthest point. If your diving with a team of 3 then maybe a little more. Team of 4 split into two teams.

sven · 9th April 2006, 01:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc)

I have been wondering how you guys plan for your bailout gas in caves, On OC it's pretty easy since you know how much you breathed going in. I am assuming most of you seldom dive OC so how do you determine sufficient gas to exit? Do you use RMV from OC diving? I am guessing you will share bailout amongst team members and prbably stages most of it. I won't be taking my Rebreather cave training until January so in the mean time I just dream about what it will be like.

Dave,

Check out this link to the Sydney Project Diving Regulations. Pages 10ff deal with deco and gas planning. That's just the way we do it, mainly for deep ocean dives. The consumption rate mentioned in there refers to your OC RMV. Every diver with advanced training, should have a pretty good idea of their RMV at rest and when working hard. It is easy to figure out.

**UWSojourner** · 9th April 2006, 02:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by sven)

Every diver with advanced training, should have a pretty good idea of their RMV at rest and when working hard. It is easy to figure out.

Some have said the RMV changes (gets worse) when you start diving CC.

What range do you see used for proper planning?

mikedive · 9th April 2006, 03:20

Hey guys,

I don't like team bail out procedure, I like carry all my bail out gas with me. If is really long penetration, I'll stage the tanks on early dives and do a progressive penetration, recovering the stages on my way out if is possible, or coming back later on for recover the stages left behind.
For my RMV calculation I use my higher RMV with 10% safety margin and if I'm diving by my self around 25% safety margin.
This is personal choice and works for me.
Cheers,

Drmike · 9th April 2006, 04:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by mikedive)

Hey guys,

I don't like team bail out procedure, I like carry all my bail out gas with me. If is really long penetration, I'll stage the tanks on early dives and do a progressive penetration, recovering the stages on my way out if is possible, or coming back later on for recover the stages left behind.
,

Yeh we do the same thing. But we just send Bruce in afterwards to collect all the stages LOL

Here he is bringing 5 back at once

**wedivebc** · 9th April 2006, 14:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by mikedive)

Hey guys,

I don't like team bail out procedure, I like carry all my bail out gas with me. If is really long penetration, I'll stage the tanks on early dives and do a progressive penetration, recovering the stages on my way out if is possible, or coming back later on for recover the stages left behind.
For my RMV calculation I use my higher RMV with 10% safety margin and if I'm diving by my self around 25% safety margin.
This is personal choice and works for me.
Cheers,

Is this the way Matt teaches it as well? Just curious

**wedivebc** · 9th April 2006, 14:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Yeh we do the same thing. But we just send Bruce in afterwards to collect all the stages LOL

Here he is bringing 5 back at once

So does Bruce hire out as a cave sherpa or just for you personally?

mikedive · 9th April 2006, 23:40

Like I told before, this is my way to plan my dives but I can assure you Matt always carry all his bail out gas with him and if you have more question you can ask him. He sign in with mattmexico.
Cheers,

8th April 2006, 20:24	#1 (permalink)
wedivebc FIGJAM Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,411	Bailout Strategies I have been wondering how you guys plan for your bailout gas in caves, On OC it's pretty easy since you know how much you breathed going in. I am assuming most of you seldom dive OC so how do you determine sufficient gas to exit? Do you use RMV from OC diving? I am guessing you will share bailout amongst team members and prbably stages most of it. I won't be taking my Rebreather cave training until January so in the mean time I just dream about what it will be like. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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8th April 2006, 20:52	#2 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,932	Re: Bailout Strategies Choices vary between; - SCR bailout (personally I dont rely on this) - OC Bailout (each diver carries a full bailout themselves) - Team bailout (each diver carries a bottom stage and the team carries/stages other gas) If you read the IANTD standards docs (online) you'll see some of the strategies detailled enough to figure out. The important things are; 1. Dont assume your bailout will be at normal RMV 2. Actually test it for real once in a while. /Z __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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9th April 2006, 00:43	#3 (permalink)
sensor330 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 564	Re: Bailout Strategies Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc) I have been wondering how you guys plan for your bailout gas in caves, On OC it's pretty easy since you know how much you breathed going in. I am assuming most of you seldom dive OC so how do you determine sufficient gas to exit? Do you use RMV from OC diving? I am guessing you will share bailout amongst team members and prbably stages most of it. I won't be taking my Rebreather cave training until January so in the mean time I just dream about what it will be like. 1.5 times the amount to get 1 diver out from the farthest point. If your diving with a team of 3 then maybe a little more. Team of 4 split into two teams.
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9th April 2006, 01:03	#4 (permalink)
sven Blogs Admin / Forum Mod Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 574	Re: Bailout Strategies Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc) I have been wondering how you guys plan for your bailout gas in caves, On OC it's pretty easy since you know how much you breathed going in. I am assuming most of you seldom dive OC so how do you determine sufficient gas to exit? Do you use RMV from OC diving? I am guessing you will share bailout amongst team members and prbably stages most of it. I won't be taking my Rebreather cave training until January so in the mean time I just dream about what it will be like. Dave, Check out this link to the Sydney Project Diving Regulations. Pages 10ff deal with deco and gas planning. That's just the way we do it, mainly for deep ocean dives. The consumption rate mentioned in there refers to your OC RMV. Every diver with advanced training, should have a pretty good idea of their RMV at rest and when working hard. It is easy to figure out. __________________ Regards, Sven [SIZE=1]The Sydney Project website: [URL]http://www.sydneyproject.com[/URL] My Blog: [URL]http://sven.rebreatherworld.com[/URL] "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain[/SIZE]
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9th April 2006, 02:55	#5 (permalink)
UWSojourner Pacific Northwest Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 556	Re: Bailout Strategies Quote: (Originally Posted by sven) Every diver with advanced training, should have a pretty good idea of their RMV at rest and when working hard. It is easy to figure out. Some have said the RMV changes (gets worse) when you start diving CC. What range do you see used for proper planning?
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9th April 2006, 03:20	#6 (permalink)
mikedive Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Brazil, Texas and Mexico Posts: 328	Re: Bailout Strategies Hey guys, I don't like team bail out procedure, I like carry all my bail out gas with me. If is really long penetration, I'll stage the tanks on early dives and do a progressive penetration, recovering the stages on my way out if is possible, or coming back later on for recover the stages left behind. For my RMV calculation I use my higher RMV with 10% safety margin and if I'm diving by my self around 25% safety margin. This is personal choice and works for me. Cheers, __________________ Michael Netto - www.rebreatherclubedobrasil.com.br ISC Megalodon CCR instructor and dealer IANTD CCR Trimix and CCR Cave instructor IANTD Dive Rite O2ptima instructor
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9th April 2006, 14:15	#8 (permalink)
wedivebc FIGJAM Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,411	Re: Bailout Strategies Quote: (Originally Posted by mikedive) Hey guys, I don't like team bail out procedure, I like carry all my bail out gas with me. If is really long penetration, I'll stage the tanks on early dives and do a progressive penetration, recovering the stages on my way out if is possible, or coming back later on for recover the stages left behind. For my RMV calculation I use my higher RMV with 10% safety margin and if I'm diving by my self around 25% safety margin. This is personal choice and works for me. Cheers, Is this the way Matt teaches it as well? Just curious __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die Last edited by wedivebc : 9th April 2006 at 14:18.
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9th April 2006, 14:17	#9 (permalink)
wedivebc FIGJAM Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,411	Re: Bailout Strategies Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Yeh we do the same thing. But we just send Bruce in afterwards to collect all the stages LOL Here he is bringing 5 back at once So does Bruce hire out as a cave sherpa or just for you personally? __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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9th April 2006, 23:40	#10 (permalink)
mikedive Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Optima Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Brazil, Texas and Mexico Posts: 328	Re: Bailout Strategies Like I told before, this is my way to plan my dives but I can assure you Matt always carry all his bail out gas with him and if you have more question you can ask him. He sign in with mattmexico. Cheers, __________________ Michael Netto - www.rebreatherclubedobrasil.com.br ISC Megalodon CCR instructor and dealer IANTD CCR Trimix and CCR Cave instructor IANTD Dive Rite O2ptima instructor Last edited by mikedive : 9th April 2006 at 23:42.
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