Advice needed for habitat

gtzavelas · 27th June 2007, 12:21

We are planning the installation of a habitat in one of our cave projects as the diving is now getting deeper (-101 so far with prospect of much more) and the water is quite cold. (10-11 deg C) and at an altitude (800m).
Since there is a tight restriction at the cave entrance that will not allow the use of a “trash bin” type of habitat and since the habitat must be placed around 350 meters in the cave we have been inclining to set up an inflatable habitat made out of vulcanised rubber (the stuff inflatable RIB boats are made).
So here come the questions:
Should we set the habitat at 12m or 9 meters depth?
Should we build a metal frame or we can get away with wide “belts” frame as I have seen in a picture?
Anyone would be kind enough to provide sketches of a similar habitat?
As for the support we are trying to find a spot (ceiling) to hold the habitat with a combination of caving bolts on the bottom.
Any advice /comments / drawings / fotos will be highly appreciated!
Thanks
George

DrJM · 27th June 2007, 13:00

-12m since 4 years and alive and kicking

stay in while -12 -9 and -6 stops clears and back to the surface at 3 minutes per meters on pure O2 just like a us navy table. Don't forget to rinse every 15 or 20 min, I find that with air (0.21*2.2= 0.46 b) I've got more Loren-Smith effects, on 10/50 (0.22b) no L-S effects but of course more expensive to run ...

Good luck

gtzavelas · 28th June 2007, 06:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by DrJM)

-12m since 4 years and alive and kicking

stay in while -12 -9 and -6 stops clears and back to the surface at 3 minutes per meters on pure O2 just like a us navy table. Don't forget to rinse every 15 or 20 min, I find that with air (0.21*2.2= 0.46 b) I've got more Loren-Smith effects, on 10/50 (0.22b) no L-S effects but of course more expensive to run ...

Good luck

thanks for the info.
a couple of questions:
1. do you just add up the time for the 12,9 and 6 stops and do the time in the habitat or do you "accelerate" the habitat stop?
2. could you point me to some reading about the "Loren-Smith effects"

DrJM · 28th June 2007, 08:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by gtzavelas)

thanks for the info.
a couple of questions:
1. do you just add up the time for the 12,9 and 6 stops and do the time in the habitat or do you "accelerate" the habitat stop?
2. could you point me to some reading about the "Loren-Smith effects"

1) I'm taking the vr3 in the habitat and wait for him to clear, if you'll use tables add your 12 9 and 6m stops and do them in the habitat, do not accelerate stops, we are doing past -100m dives into the unknown of the hyperbaric medecine so let's be conservative

2) By Loren Smith effect I mean coughing burning sensation of the lungs due to too much exposure to O2 by the alveoli of the lungs, therefore the need of flushing with air or trimix every 15 or 20 min for 5 minutes.
For papers on L-S check Mr Google or mail Simon Mitchel

All the best

Jerome

DrJM · 28th June 2007, 08:17

Forgot to say:

FLUSH the habitat every 20 min for 5 min with some fresh AIR !!!!

That will make it breathable in case of hyperoxia or hypercapnia, you can even attach yourself in the habitat with a harness in case of a hyperoxia where you would fall down and drown in the water.

And drink a lot, a liter per hour would help you desaturating

Mikel-Deko · 28th June 2007, 09:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by DrJM)

Forgot to say:

And drink a lot, a liter per hour would help you desaturating

A liter per hou of WATER... BEER not desature

After some humor, just a question.
Does somebody know how to make a abitat for sea-diving?
We have been thinking about it for some time, but can't find the right way.
We will need it for a wreck dive in -110 mtrs.
Thanks
Mikel-deko

Ben Field · 28th June 2007, 09:47

Purely out of curiosity- do you have any monitors in the habitat for PPO2 etc? (I guess a CO2 monitor would be ideal here or may be a Canary?

)

DrJM · 28th June 2007, 09:59

No need to ppo2 check the habitat if you rinse it with air every 20 minutes ; - )

decoweenie · 28th June 2007, 10:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mikel-Deko)

Does somebody know how to make a abitat for sea-diving?

with 2,000-lb of lead...

I think the last person mentioned about building a saltwater wreck-diving habitat was Captain-JT...

***caveseeker7*** · 28th June 2007, 10:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

with 2,000-lb of lead...

Easier to attach it first and then sink the ship ...

27th June 2007, 12:21	#1 (permalink)
gtzavelas Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon RB80 / Clone Other Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Athens,Greece Posts: 261	Advice needed for habitat We are planning the installation of a habitat in one of our cave projects as the diving is now getting deeper (-101 so far with prospect of much more) and the water is quite cold. (10-11 deg C) and at an altitude (800m). Since there is a tight restriction at the cave entrance that will not allow the use of a “trash bin” type of habitat and since the habitat must be placed around 350 meters in the cave we have been inclining to set up an inflatable habitat made out of vulcanised rubber (the stuff inflatable RIB boats are made). So here come the questions: Should we set the habitat at 12m or 9 meters depth? Should we build a metal frame or we can get away with wide “belts” frame as I have seen in a picture? Anyone would be kind enough to provide sketches of a similar habitat? As for the support we are trying to find a spot (ceiling) to hold the habitat with a combination of caving bolts on the bottom. Any advice /comments / drawings / fotos will be highly appreciated! Thanks George
(Online)

27th June 2007, 13:00	#2 (permalink)
DrJM Deep Cave Explorer Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: May 2005 Location: France Posts: 344	Re: Advice needed for habitat -12m since 4 years and alive and kicking stay in while -12 -9 and -6 stops clears and back to the surface at 3 minutes per meters on pure O2 just like a us navy table. Don't forget to rinse every 15 or 20 min, I find that with air (0.21*2.2= 0.46 b) I've got more Loren-Smith effects, on 10/50 (0.22b) no L-S effects but of course more expensive to run ... Good luck __________________ www.snoopyloop.com Deep Cave Exploration
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28th June 2007, 06:59	#3 (permalink)
gtzavelas Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon RB80 / Clone Other Rebreather/s: RB80 / Clone Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Athens,Greece Posts: 261	Re: Advice needed for habitat Quote: (Originally Posted by DrJM) -12m since 4 years and alive and kicking stay in while -12 -9 and -6 stops clears and back to the surface at 3 minutes per meters on pure O2 just like a us navy table. Don't forget to rinse every 15 or 20 min, I find that with air (0.21*2.2= 0.46 b) I've got more Loren-Smith effects, on 10/50 (0.22b) no L-S effects but of course more expensive to run ... Good luck thanks for the info. a couple of questions: 1. do you just add up the time for the 12,9 and 6 stops and do the time in the habitat or do you "accelerate" the habitat stop? 2. could you point me to some reading about the "Loren-Smith effects"
(Online)

28th June 2007, 08:13	#4 (permalink)
DrJM Deep Cave Explorer Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: May 2005 Location: France Posts: 344	Re: Advice needed for habitat Quote: (Originally Posted by gtzavelas) thanks for the info. a couple of questions: 1. do you just add up the time for the 12,9 and 6 stops and do the time in the habitat or do you "accelerate" the habitat stop? 2. could you point me to some reading about the "Loren-Smith effects" 1) I'm taking the vr3 in the habitat and wait for him to clear, if you'll use tables add your 12 9 and 6m stops and do them in the habitat, do not accelerate stops, we are doing past -100m dives into the unknown of the hyperbaric medecine so let's be conservative 2) By Loren Smith effect I mean coughing burning sensation of the lungs due to too much exposure to O2 by the alveoli of the lungs, therefore the need of flushing with air or trimix every 15 or 20 min for 5 minutes. For papers on L-S check Mr Google or mail Simon Mitchel All the best Jerome __________________ www.snoopyloop.com Deep Cave Exploration
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28th June 2007, 08:17	#5 (permalink)
DrJM Deep Cave Explorer Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: May 2005 Location: France Posts: 344	Re: Advice needed for habitat Forgot to say: FLUSH the habitat every 20 min for 5 min with some fresh AIR !!!! That will make it breathable in case of hyperoxia or hypercapnia, you can even attach yourself in the habitat with a harness in case of a hyperoxia where you would fall down and drown in the water. And drink a lot, a liter per hour would help you desaturating __________________ www.snoopyloop.com Deep Cave Exploration
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28th June 2007, 09:35	#6 (permalink)
Mikel-Deko Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Basque Country -Sp- Posts: 448	Re: Advice needed for habitat Quote: (Originally Posted by DrJM) Forgot to say: And drink a lot, a liter per hour would help you desaturating A liter per hou of WATER... BEER not desature After some humor, just a question. Does somebody know how to make a abitat for sea-diving? We have been thinking about it for some time, but can't find the right way. We will need it for a wreck dive in -110 mtrs. Thanks Mikel-deko __________________ Mikel-Deko Basque Country www.olatu.net "DIR is the nanny state for divers who cannot think on their own" Ron Micjan Last edited by Mikel-Deko : 28th June 2007 at 09:43.
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28th June 2007, 09:47	#7 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,631	Re: Advice needed for habitat Purely out of curiosity- do you have any monitors in the habitat for PPO2 etc? (I guess a CO2 monitor would be ideal here or may be a Canary? ) __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
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28th June 2007, 09:59	#8 (permalink)
DrJM Deep Cave Explorer Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Join Date: May 2005 Location: France Posts: 344	Re: Advice needed for habitat No need to ppo2 check the habitat if you rinse it with air every 20 minutes ; - ) __________________ www.snoopyloop.com Deep Cave Exploration
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28th June 2007, 10:05	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Advice needed for habitat Quote: (Originally Posted by Mikel-Deko) Does somebody know how to make a abitat for sea-diving? with 2,000-lb of lead... I think the last person mentioned about building a saltwater wreck-diving habitat was Captain-JT... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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28th June 2007, 10:10	#10 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,494	Re: Advice needed for habitat Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) with 2,000-lb of lead... Easier to attach it first and then sink the ship ... __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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